Storage Opinions or "Am I legal?"

abalas said:
I am more concerned about my son (now 1.5 yo but growing fast) who is very curious. Even if he opens my safe, he still grabs trigger locked guns and won't hurt himself. Only problem is that I keep all the keys together.....so if he unlocks the room, then he unlocks the safe, then there is nothing to prevent him from opening the trigger locks. Three options: 1. Teach him responsibility very early on, 2. Separate the keys. 3. All of the above.
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Put you keys in a lockable container (?steel toolbox for example) and put a good quality combination lock on it. Don't tell anyone the combination.

That way, nobody can access your firearms, etc.

As for your kids, teach them not to touch stuff that isn't theirs. That means your guns, your wallet, your medication, your bleach, etc. Preventing access alone just teaches inquisitive kids that the only thing they can't have is the stuff they can't get.
 
beetlejuice said:
I think the rule of thumb is that if it says its a safe designed for firearms storage then its considered a safe designed for firearms storage. If it has a decal on it like mine that shows a picture of firearms being stored in it then leave it on there and keep the instruction booklet that says it can be used for firearms storage.

it says specifically "vault, safe or room that was built or modified specifically to store firearms safely."
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I don't know about that, you may want to check up on it... I passed my RPAL a couple of months ago and the instructor is pretty much the same guy that taught the class to every english-speaking quebecker in the southern regions (at the Lachine hunting club).

He clearly specified that firearms + ammo can be stored in a safe and that the law is not specific as to what a definition of a safe is. In other words, he specified that pistols & ammo can be stored together without further precautions in anything that is called a 'safe'.

Besides, if you re-read your own quote of 'vault, safe or room that was built or modified specifically to store firearms safely', you can see that this interpretation is wide enough to drive a Mack truck through it. If you take an ordinary gun cabinet or a room and 'modify' it to be used for safe storage, what are the guidelines that determine whether it is safe or not? There are none... common sense is your only way to go on that one.

As far as I understand it, a safe is a box with a combination lock/key & bolt locks that has the name 'safe' attributed to it by it's manufacturer (and no further digging between the lines is required).

:cheers:
 
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So whacha think?

Ok fella's.... I had some time this weekend..... a planned trip to the states got side tracked by a blown water heater...... :(

So I took a look in the garage and did some mesuring and I had enough scrap plywood and what not laying around to build something I have had in mind for a little bit, but up untill now I haven't bothered to b/c I figgured what is the point, if it is illegal anyway..... well apperently it may not be so WTF lets "git-r-dun" :dancingbanana:

I have always had a bit of a problem storing my firearms..... I think I don't have enough guns and my wife has told me I can't buy another safe...... So I figgure to build one..... a loophole yes? :cool: :D

So I built a cabinet out of plywood, with standoffs for most of my long arms (enough room for 15 total), a bit of shelving on the inside as well so I can put mags, ammo & what not in there to lock it up as well (mostly finished now, it just needs a little lipstick & mascara... and some paint)..... and then I figgured I would take my most "thrifty" "safe" and put some shelves in it so I can store more pistols in it...... The best part is I now have 2 Stack-on 7 guns "safes" empty..... just waiting to get filled up!!

I took some pics....... (sorry about the quality but its from my phone, my digital camera's pics are WAAAAY too big & I havn't figgured out how to make them smaller)

The "safes"
G-safes.jpg


Long guns all in a row......
Longgunsafe.jpg


Ammo storage & mags......
LGSshelves.jpg


Pistol cabinet..... (3 of my "kids" are missing as they are out for service).....
PistolSafe.jpg


So I have a barrel bolt and a big heavy $65.00 lock on it that can only be cut with a grinder..... Do I still need trigger locks on my long guns? I have enough trigger locks so that is not an issue, but if I don't need them why put them on, right?

One more pic, so if this is a safe designed to store firearms I don't need a trigger lock...... and notice the loaded mag..... that is safe storeage?????

Safestorage.jpg


Thanks for the info fellas, and thanks in advance for your comments.......
Cheers
 
Rifles (non-restricted)don't need to be trigger-locked when they are in a cabinet, what you built is a cabinet, basically something locked that is not easily broken into.
Your "safe" needs to be a real safe, if it's specified by the company as a safe, it IS one, if it's not, it's a cabinet and therefore you need to trigger-lock your restricteds. You also need to store your ammo separately if it's not a safe.
What you can do to have a handgun LEGALLY ready to go, is to buy a small safe (they can be as cheap as 60$), with enough room for one or two handguns and loaded mags, bolt it to the wall and you're "good to go" without trigger locks.
 
im i the only one to think that these laws are non sense? if a thief stole some restricted firearm from a cabinet . it would only take him less than 20 minutes to break the lock (probably with the tools found in your garage too.)
 
That's funny, the top shelf of your pistol safe looks exactly the same as mine (but I keep a 10 rounder for the AR there too). :D
 
I keep G17 w/TLR-1 in holster (paddle) and two mags with Golden Sabres in my safe, small electronic combo, bolted down in bedroom. Also modified the safe de-soldering the speaker so no 'tell tale' beeps when opening it. No sense alerting anyone.
 
You guys are right for the safe part no needing extra locks inside, but that applies to certified safes, and certified safes are like 8 grands and up. The certification should be visible in the front of the safe

these little safes, like the StackOn, are nothing but metal cabinets, and weapons inside do require a lock of some sort
 
handgun storage

your doing the right thing buddy . I myself have a trigger lock on my revolver in my safe which weighs about 600 plus lbs . my rifles are;nt trigger locked . as for my ammo it;s in another locked container . why do you want to have a cop say show up at your place to check on storage and test the waters . as in maybe buddy - the cop does;nt know the law as well as we do and freekout because you have loaded mags in your safe , the choice is yours people we have been screwed over and have been fighting back but I prefur not to have some squid show up here and dink me around because I have loaded mags in my safe just because we are allowed to and he does;nt know we are . pickup a used fileing cabinet and paint it to your tastes and store your ammo in there . hasp and padlock on it will do . :cool:
 
charles.emond said:
You guys are right for the safe part no needing extra locks inside, but that applies to certified safes, and certified safes are like 8 grands and up. The certification should be visible in the front of the safe

these little safes, like the StackOn, are nothing but metal cabinets, and weapons inside do require a lock of some sort
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My Sentry Safe weighs in at around 500 lbs I would guess and cost about $1,100. I have ssen them for under a grand. I am not sure the metal cabinets would qualify as a safe but I am certain the Sentry Safe would.

Take Care

Bob
 
i like to do the overkill thing too. just so there is as little chance as possible of unathorized access to my gun.

1. trigger lock.
2. cable lock through slide and mag well
3. stored in a safe with no magazines or ammo.
4. ammo and mags in a separate locked container in a separate location.
5. keys to ammo box, safe range membership and access keys inside another separate locked tool box in a separate location.

...it takes me about 15 minutes to gather and pack all my stuff when I want to go to the range.
 
charles.emond said:
You guys are right for the safe part no needing extra locks inside, but that applies to certified safes, and certified safes are like 8 grands and up. The certification should be visible in the front of the safe

these little safes, like the StackOn, are nothing but metal cabinets, and weapons inside do require a lock of some sort
Click to expand...

What's a "certified" safe? Certified by whom? I have a safe, not a cabinet, but a safe, that doesn't have any sort of "certification' tag on it anywhere, and it didn't cost anywhere near 8 grand. More like 2500.00.
I agree with you about cabinets like Stack-on, though. Not because they don't meet the regs ( they do), but because in case of a legal dispute, I wouldn't want to be trying to defend a flimsy cabinet like a Stack-on.
 
I beleive it is the ULC certification

Underwriters Laboratories of Canada (ULC) is an independent, not-for-profit product safety testing and certification organization. We've tested products for public safety for more than 80 years and are accredited by the Standards Council of Canada, under the National Standards System.
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okay but do you have to bolt the safe to the floor. Just asking, I've been told that the safe has to be anchored to the floor or it is in fact breaking the law. I will tell you landlords do not like holes in their cement floors.

I don't have an restricted firearms but my license should be coming soon. I got told you needed to have a safe bolted to the floor with trigger locks on your restricted and nonrestriced and your ammo locked up in a different container and in a locked room designated for firearms storage. There was no other option period. While being told locking my ammo up and putting trigger locks on my current guns 30-06 bolt action and a .22Lr bolt action was in fact illegally storage.

I've also been told ammo must stored in another locked wooden container with brass hardware paint bright orange and marked dangerous. When I said on this site I was locking my ammo in my dads old solid steel tool box.

Here are the regulations it looks to me that if you can transport your restricted you can have it without a gun safe. It says sturdy container it does not specify how heavy or that it needs to be bolted down. Trigger lock and a locked sturdy container is legal. Now anything past that is a good idea and as soon as I own a home I will gladly put holes in the floor to make it as safe as I can.

http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/media-presse/pdf/safestorage_e.pdf
 
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"okay but do you have to bolt the safe to the floor. Just asking, I've been told that the safe has to be anchored to the floor or it is in fact breaking the law."

"I got told you needed to have a safe bolted to the floor with trigger locks on your restricted and nonrestriced and your ammo locked up in a different container and in a locked room designated for firearms storage. There was no other option period."

"I've also been told ammo must stored in another locked wooden container with brass hardware paint bright orange and marked dangerous."

Sigh. STOP TALKING TO WHOMEVER IS "TELLING" YOU THESE THINGS. Read, learn, try to be smarter then the average dolt. You read the regs, you know what they say. Even though they are incredibly badly written, they are the laws. That's all you legally have to comply with, in spite of the safety nazis, the internet experts, the office know it all, or the local police department. - dan
 
Agreed, I'm planing on buying a gun cabinet. Wifes concerned about the youngest six and a half year old very interested in guns. Wife wants a little more security (she really needs her RPAL) and with the restricted around the corner. I'm getting the gun cabinet and going to put the trigger locks on the restricted guns since I will not need them for the rifles any more.

Until I get to the point where my guns value outstrip the value of a good safe. Then I'll pick up a good one.
 
charles.emond said:
I beleive it is the ULC certification
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ULC certification is generally for fire resistant safes and for the pruposes of business insurance for jewellers. There is NO requirement of ANY kind for a gun safe to be UL listed.

Also, I agree with Dan - quit making it tougher than it needs to be, has anyone else noticed that the post counts for those who are buying the safety Nazi line are on the low side? There could be a reason for that.
 
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notsorichguy said:
Ok fella's.... I had some time this weekend..... a planned trip to the states got side tracked by a blown water heater...... :(

So I took a look in the garage and did some mesuring and I had enough scrap plywood and what not laying around to build something I have had in mind for a little bit, but up untill now I haven't bothered to b/c I figgured what is the point, if it is illegal anyway..... well apperently it may not be so WTF lets "git-r-dun" :dancingbanana:

I have always had a bit of a problem storing my firearms..... I think I don't have enough guns and my wife has told me I can't buy another safe...... So I figgure to build one..... a loophole yes? :cool: :D

So I built a cabinet out of plywood, with standoffs for most of my long arms (enough room for 15 total), a bit of shelving on the inside as well so I can put mags, ammo & what not in there to lock it up as well (mostly finished now, it just needs a little lipstick & mascara... and some paint)..... and then I figgured I would take my most "thrifty" "safe" and put some shelves in it so I can store more pistols in it...... The best part is I now have 2 Stack-on 7 guns "safes" empty..... just waiting to get filled up!!

I took some pics....... (sorry about the quality but its from my phone, my digital camera's pics are WAAAAY too big & I havn't figgured out how to make them smaller)

The "safes"
G-safes.jpg


Long guns all in a row......
Longgunsafe.jpg


Ammo storage & mags......
LGSshelves.jpg


Pistol cabinet..... (3 of my "kids" are missing as they are out for service).....
PistolSafe.jpg


So I have a barrel bolt and a big heavy $65.00 lock on it that can only be cut with a grinder..... Do I still need trigger locks on my long guns? I have enough trigger locks so that is not an issue, but if I don't need them why put them on, right?

One more pic, so if this is a safe designed to store firearms I don't need a trigger lock...... and notice the loaded mag..... that is safe storeage?????

Safestorage.jpg


Thanks for the info fellas, and thanks in advance for your comments.......



Cheers
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for the restricted in that kind of storage I would use trigger locks- I dont see a gun cabinet meeting the definition of a safe as its clearly marketed as a security cabinet.


UL designations just mean that the safe manufacturer has paid money to Underwriters Laboratories to have thier safe tested against certain standards such as TL15 or RSC or for 1 or 2 hour fire protection at 350F.
 
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