Really? I didn't realize this was a thing. Don't quite understand the mechanics of it, please explain further....
Storing a bolt action bolt
- Thread starter powdergun
- Start date
Really? I didn't realize this was a thing. Don't quite understand the mechanics of it, please explain further....
The best way to understand what happens is to flip your arm forward, without clenching your fist, as hard as you can and feel what happens at the wrist when it stops suddenly.
The same thing happens to the tip of a firing pin and the more often it happens, the weaker the pin becomes. It's akin to mild flexing, which over a period of time will cause the metal to break/weaken.
With modern rifles, most of them will have evenly tempered steel from one end to the other.
This wasn't the case with older firearms which often only had the tips of the firing pins hardened. They didn't have controlled temps and relied on the eyes of the person tempering them to get the "right color" before quenching in oil to harden properly.
When the spring is released and the firing pin is pushed ahead, at quite a high velocity, then comes to a very sudden halt, INERTIA takes over and if the juncture between hard and soft metal isn't quite right or has flexed one to many times the tip will continue on out the end of the barrel.
No, this won't happen every time, but unless you know for sure the tempering is perfect, which is close to impossible on firearms made under stressful conditions with 80 year old technology, it's luck of the draw.
It happens often enough that the warnings are still out there.
Another analogous image is to watch what happens when you use an inertia puller to remove bullets from a case.
Springs don't work that way.
Springs become weak from cycling not from remaining under tension.
Some will tell a story of a mag spring that is weaker because it was left with cartridges loaded in it.
That spring was going to get weak just from use so taking the cartridges out won't help.
If a spring get weak it is from improper tempering not from being left under tension and there is nothing you can about it.
Springs become weak from cycling not from remaining under tension.
Some will tell a story of a mag spring that is weaker because it was left with cartridges loaded in it.
That spring was going to get weak just from use so taking the cartridges out won't help.
If a spring get weak it is from improper tempering not from being left under tension and there is nothing you can about it.
- Location
- Western Manitoba
For sure on a Mauser 98 and similar - the "#### on open" actions based on Mauser 98 - the firing pin spring is almost completely compressed to the firing position when the bolt is opened - there will be a bit more as the bolt handle is dropped, to transfer the cocking piece ledge to the trigger sear. So, the Mauser 98 main spring is not COMPLETELY cocked, until the bolt handle is closed - but when lifted, and the bolt withdrawn, it is 98% cocked or more. With the "#### on close" type - Lee Enfield, Enfield, Swede Mauser - the main spring is not compressed to fire, at all, if the trigger is pulled back while the bolt is closed - however, it is fully cocked (fully compressed) when the thing has been operated to be closed without touching the trigger. Just to assemble the Mauser bolt - you are going to use considerable force to compress the main spring to get the cocking piece onto the firing pin - whether you are in a "could fire" alignment or not. There is a good deal of compression of the main spring when the bolt is assembled, whether "cocked" to fire, or not.
It doesn’t matter to the spring; its compressed either way. For fun I tested a M70 spring, probably around the easing the spring thing. 19 pounds down and 21 pounds cocked. Spring wear is almost entirely about cycles.
Springs are cheap. During the winter I was on a bit of a spring changing mission and used up my stash of Remingtons. Got a dozen long and shorts for 6 US bucks apiece. The mission was mostly inspired when a rifle that struggled with mediocracy through a couple barrels was transformed into an instant tack-driver with just that simple change.
Part of mission was trying out my homemade Remington disassembly tool. Took about 20 minutes to make with 2 nuts, a wing-nut, a piece of redi-rod, and a few minutes on the welder. Works pretty slick
Part of mission was trying out my homemade Remington disassembly tool. Took about 20 minutes to make with 2 nuts, a wing-nut, a piece of redi-rod, and a few minutes on the welder. Works pretty slick
- Location
- Western Manitoba
SuperCub - do you store your guns with snap-caps in the chamber? (weeks, months, years?)
Like "de-compressing" the main spring when closing the bolt for storing, maybe I was also in error about my aversion to not liking to "dry fire" without using a snap cap, or storing an arm with a snap cap in the chamber?
Like "de-compressing" the main spring when closing the bolt for storing, maybe I was also in error about my aversion to not liking to "dry fire" without using a snap cap, or storing an arm with a snap cap in the chamber?
- Location
- Nova Scotia
My Buckmark Target pistol I leave a snap cap in. With no ill effect.
Store it in the rifle the way you always have, that way you'll never lose it.
Honestly, the spring will likely be fine whether it's left cocked or not. It's firing and cocking the spring (using the rifle) that wears it out. Storing it under tension shouldn't hurt it at all.
Honestly, the spring will likely be fine whether it's left cocked or not. It's firing and cocking the spring (using the rifle) that wears it out. Storing it under tension shouldn't hurt it at all.
The way I see it, when a spring is under tension, it is like being used. Same as the leaf spring in a clip. But I'm no metaluroligical engineer.
This topic has come up for the past 60 years I've been interested in firearms and just about anything mechanical or electric combinations that use springs.
Many years back, militaries did tests on springs.
Magazine springs for the 1911 Colt pistols especially. It seemed that one of the issues they had was spring failure. This was often claimed to be caused by the practice of keeping the magazines fully loaded and stored in belt pouches, sometimes for years, depending on where they were being used.
After the testing was done, it was determined keeping the spring under tension was not the cause of failure or breakage.
It was the constant movement of the spring, along with poor heat treatment which caused spring failures. There were other exceptions of course.
Many years back, militaries did tests on springs.
Magazine springs for the 1911 Colt pistols especially. It seemed that one of the issues they had was spring failure. This was often claimed to be caused by the practice of keeping the magazines fully loaded and stored in belt pouches, sometimes for years, depending on where they were being used.
After the testing was done, it was determined keeping the spring under tension was not the cause of failure or breakage.
It was the constant movement of the spring, along with poor heat treatment which caused spring failures. There were other exceptions of course.
The concern about charged magazines - over the long-term - and the commonly-heard advice to rotate magazines, isn't just about 'easing the spring', it's also about the magazine body, the magazine feed lips, and the ammunition.
Yup, that was part of the recommendation as well, from what I remember. Magazine feed lips will eventually change their configuration.
That being said, I had a 1911 loaded magazine which I found at the back of my safe. It had been there for at least fifteen years. I took it to the range, inserted it into my early contract, Remington made 1911, racked the slide and shot all seven rounds without any issues. Then reloaded that mag several times and repeated.
That was about a decade back and that magazine, early with the lanyard ring on the bottom, is still functioning flawlessly.
One bad habit a "few" troopies got into was using the lips of their magazines for bottle openers.
Not exactly. By "used" I mean cycled (compressed/relieved). It's working the spring that softens it. Storing it under tension won't hurt it at all. Think of the leaf springs on your truck - it's impact and movement (bouncing) that wear them out. If you bought a brand new truck and let it sit in the garage for 50 years, the springs (under load all that time) will be just the same as the day you bought it.
freddyfour
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Brant County, Ontario
That happened to me last year......
