wondering if anyone has experianced this. last couple of weekends i have got my rem 700 375 out to the range. its got a fluted fairly heavy montana ss barrel. loaded up some book loads with speer 235 and sierra 250's for breakin. as i chose to use a luep vx11 1x4 20mm scope. i was shooting at 50 yds. after the shoot one clean for 10 rounds i started to shoot groups. best 3 round groups a 50yds were around 2.5 to 3 inches. i was getting some disapointed after spending large on the build. i had no large targets with me, only one with a 3.5 inch aiming spot. i decieded to shoot my last rounds at 100 yds. it was very hard to see the target with a small scope. any way i fired a few groups. the worst was 1.25 and the best 5/8 of an inch. its almost like the bullets wern't stabilzing at close range. has any one else experianced this?
strange grouping from a 375h&h
- Thread starter chappy
- Start date
I'd be thinking more of a parallax issue than bullets going to sleep. Give your scope the old headshake test and see if the crosshairs aren't a lot more stationary at 100 than at 50. It might be closer to parallax free at 200 than at 100, that's usually the case with Leupolds. On the other hand, if you put the 2.5-10 on you may never take it off. I've got a 3.5-10 and a 3-9 on my .375s and never wish I had less power.
i used the 1x4 for eye relief but more magnification maybe better. 25 years ago i used to thing a 4x was a high power scope. it just blew me away the groups i was getting at 100 verses 50. i will check out the paralax issue next range trip. its a good thought
- Location
- Hillbilly shack in the boonies
My guess , you just started to settle into the unit. Was their a big shift in group size from the light to the heavy bullets?
As for the scope, I would look at what else is in the locker, if you got some guns to work the mid to long range, I would keep the 375 for close to medium work with the scope you got, maybe a 2-7 x if your set on a new scope.
As for the scope, I would look at what else is in the locker, if you got some guns to work the mid to long range, I would keep the 375 for close to medium work with the scope you got, maybe a 2-7 x if your set on a new scope.
I can't believe that parallax will cause 3-5 inch groups at 50 yards. There just isn't that much parallax in any scope I've seen at that close range.
I've had problems getting 375H&H rifles to perform reliably in the past. On the last rifle there were three problems. One was a shooter afraid of the extremely light rifle, UltraLight Browning. Two the bedding was soft and the scope (Burris) couldn't take the recoil either. Three the rifle preferred heavy 275 grain bullets, loaded close to max pressures. Many magnum cartridges and rifles perform best when loaded close to max.
Check your bedding, scope bases, scope rings and scope. I didn't find a problem with the Burris when I remounted it on a 30-06 but when it went back on the 375H&H, poi changed from shot to shot. When I replaced the variable 3-9 Burris with a "go to" 4x Burris, that I keep as a reliable indicator to detect scope problems, the groups tightened up and shot close to aim point. There was also a bedding issue that needed to be addressed. But those are issues you will need to look at.
I've used a couple of "Montana" barrels, bought from "Bits of Pieces". Darn good barrels in my humble opinion. Did you have the barrel fluted and contoured by "Montana" or was that done by the gunsmith that installed the barrel? I'm not suggesting he did a bad job in any way, but I've picked up a few used fluted barrels that made decent crow bars but made lousy shooters.
I've had problems getting 375H&H rifles to perform reliably in the past. On the last rifle there were three problems. One was a shooter afraid of the extremely light rifle, UltraLight Browning. Two the bedding was soft and the scope (Burris) couldn't take the recoil either. Three the rifle preferred heavy 275 grain bullets, loaded close to max pressures. Many magnum cartridges and rifles perform best when loaded close to max.
Check your bedding, scope bases, scope rings and scope. I didn't find a problem with the Burris when I remounted it on a 30-06 but when it went back on the 375H&H, poi changed from shot to shot. When I replaced the variable 3-9 Burris with a "go to" 4x Burris, that I keep as a reliable indicator to detect scope problems, the groups tightened up and shot close to aim point. There was also a bedding issue that needed to be addressed. But those are issues you will need to look at.
I've used a couple of "Montana" barrels, bought from "Bits of Pieces". Darn good barrels in my humble opinion. Did you have the barrel fluted and contoured by "Montana" or was that done by the gunsmith that installed the barrel? I'm not suggesting he did a bad job in any way, but I've picked up a few used fluted barrels that made decent crow bars but made lousy shooters.
the barrel work was done by barry at bits of pieces. rifle is bedded in a h&s precision stock. my only query is why it shoots better at 100 than fifty. not really thinking scope problem as it would group to same point every time. mounted in leup dual dovetail mnts. no windage screw to cause problems. groups were just a lot smaller at longer range.
Many bullets don't settle down for the first 75-150 yards. The 7mmRemMag will do the same thing with some bullets. So will the 300 win mag and 338 win mag. Maybe your twist rate is over stabilizing the bullet at high muzzle velocity and as the velocity declines to be within the proper limits, the bullet settles down.
Barry does excellent work from the few other rifles of his that I've seen.
Barry does excellent work from the few other rifles of his that I've seen.
i'm not questioning barrys work. he has done severeal rifles for me all good. maybe your on to something about speed. maybe i should loasd up some heavier bullets. even that bad grouping at 5o would be clean hits on a bear and 100 yrd groups are good. more testing required i think.
However, there is no way that bullets that are dispersing at 50 yards suddenly start converging as they approach 100.
Ted
Pudelpointer
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Lethbridge, Alberta
X2 Why not?
Sounds like some "Wanted" ballistics logic there!
Anyway, Chappy, I would bet that you will tighten up those 50 yard groups if you tried a 1/2" or 1" dot instead of the 3 1/2". The smaller the target the closer your miss will be. If you can see the little white x in the centre of the bullseye, aim at that.
Bullseye targets are designed to be hard to shoot; not the best choice for sighting in and working up reloads.
Ian
Sounds like some "Wanted" ballistics logic there!
Anyway, Chappy, I would bet that you will tighten up those 50 yard groups if you tried a 1/2" or 1" dot instead of the 3 1/2". The smaller the target the closer your miss will be. If you can see the little white x in the centre of the bullseye, aim at that.
Bullseye targets are designed to be hard to shoot; not the best choice for sighting in and working up reloads.
Ian
I'm pretty sure the problem is scope size related or more accurately an aiming error. I see this stuff all the time with my 1.5-5X scopes.
The trick is getting the right sized aiming/reference point (or target) that creates a consistently repeatable point of aim.
If I am right the problem will go away with a higher power scope.
None of this matters when we are hunting.
The trick is getting the right sized aiming/reference point (or target) that creates a consistently repeatable point of aim.
If I am right the problem will go away with a higher power scope.
None of this matters when we are hunting.
