Strange Mosin sticky bolt, ridiculously strong trigger spring

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ConfederateRedneckJew

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Hello all,

Out of the box my MN bolt was extremely sticky or stiff on opening and closing whether cocked or not. Forward and rearward motion was always very smooth. The rifle did not come with a lot of cosmo and has all matching parts, even bayonet. I can't see any evidence of reserializing but who knows, its a prewar 91/30 and I don't really care. This rifle was refurbished in Depot 25 and has the orange paint in all serial numbers including bayonet and rearsight elevations. Barrel could be unfired, rifling is very strong and I can't see any pits, though I'm not that trained, and the wood is in great shape. The guy in the depot shimmed all receiver contact areas and sliced the front top of the stock and expertly replaced with another piece of wood of different color that is higher, like front barrel support which is recommended for Mosins. I will investigate and post about this further as I am not aware of their manuals instructing the front support to be done this way.

*I never fired or loaded the Mosin with anything, this is all without ammo*

I cleaned the entire rifle with hot water, mineral spirits and ballistol, not all at the same time. I lubed it up put it back together and the situation was unchanged. I disassembled the bolt, cleaned it very thoroughly and polished all the recommended areas to 2500 grit (locking cams and the front part that contacts the top of the receiver).

After I put it back together the situation slightly improved but was still unbearable yet there was one dramatic improvement. After cocking previously, the bolt lifts and draws back with extreme ease and grace, smoother than any cocked bolt action I've ever handled, amazing. Closing the bolt was still ridiculously difficult and not even in a gradual, heavy way. Opening for cocking was very bad but not as impossible as before.

I suspect there is still some cosmo in the chamber, but I never chambered a round, and so it should not interfere with the dry manipulation of the bolt. I don't have a 20 gauge brass brush but can't get any more cosmo out with out with what I have.

I suspect that the firing pin spring is ridiculously tense. Getting it back in was almost impossible and I have not yet found anyone who can #### manually or even operate the safety. I'm not exaggerating. It could also be off-center, when I #### is jumps from stage to stage, not sure about this.

The rifle has barely any markings, I believe it's really possible that the major parts are original, maybe the spring just got worn during the war and they replaced it with a very stiff one? If I can't find any other solution I will snip of a coil to see if it gets any better, honestly with the amount of force this spring exerts it makes my whole rifle shake and could probably set off a PAK-40 shell. Should I try assembling bolt without firing pin to see if it still causes problems?

Could it be something with the wood? Probably isn't it but worth a thought.

Any advice is welcome.

Thank you all!
 
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ConfederateRedneckJew said:
The guy in the depot shimmed all receiver contact areas and sliced the front top of the stock and expertly replaced with another piece of wood of different color that is higher, like front barrel support which is recommended for Mosins. I will investigate and post about this further as I am not aware of their manuals instructing the front support to be done this way.
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I'm not sure what you mean by this. Are you referring to the uncommon Russian stock splice? Pictures would help.

Cosmoline in the chamber / recess for the bearing lugs is the number one cause for the sticky bolt issue on a Mosin-Nagant. As far as the firing pin spring goes, there have been cases where the spring binds in the bolt or gets caught on burrs. However, the Mosin-Nagant is #### on open so the firing pin spring usually causes issues with opening the bolt. Unfortunately, the odds are that nearly every part on your rifle is not original to the rifle. During refurbishment every rifle was stripped down to single bare components and cleaned and reassembled at random sometimes. You run into issues of stacking tolerances. Try closing the bolt 1/3rd of the way (half ####) and then pull the trigger and see if and where the bolt binds when decocking.
 
I will post some pictures up, it's quite interesting.

I know it's #### on open, when I open to #### it is almost impossible to open with one hand, when I open after its already cocked it is perfectly smooth.

I really don't care if the parts are original or not, but you should read up on the story of Depot 25 Mosins, they were refurbed well after WW2 after returning from issuance to Soviet allies, hence the shims and probably the raised front for barrel support.

I did that and it made quite a scary sound, bolt binds about halfway down, it clicked down.

EDIT: I just went to 7.62x54r.net and Barrel, magazine, buttplate, bayonet and bolt all have the same letter and number combination identically stamped. No electropencil, crossing out, or grinding off. The stamping of each serial number is done exactly like the examples uploaded for original serial numbers.
 
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Yep I did more research and as far as it is possible to tell this one is factory matching and is exactly like the first one that this guy took pictures of: http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?355631-Two-100-original-matching-1938-Tula-91-30-non-refurbs-**Warning-VERY-pic-heavy

Same proofs, finish etc... Just the painting of the SNs and elevation on the rearsight orange is different because it was added at Depot 25. It was probably in such condition they didn't bother replacing anything, by the way the Depot 25 is an inspection mark and does not mean any actual work was performed.
 
Its a red letter Mosin. I have a red letter M38. It originally had a sticky bolt which wouldnt open after firing a round. But preformed fine when cycling dummy rounds.

I swapped the bolt head with another gun, and the operation was much better afterwards.

Check the bolt head for signs of refurb. Some lugs were grinded on the underside and can impede cycling. Also, if your rifle is an Izzy, the look for a Tula star stamp on the bolt head. (and vice versa)
Bolt heads are interchangable, but some rifles can be picky with cycling afterwards with certain ones. This causes more grief typically than any headspace concerns.
 
Hmm, if it fires fine with ammunition its perfect as far as I'm concerned, but I've only heard of problems being added with the introduction of a cartridge. I've heard of people with my year and background of Mosin having a perfectly smooth operation unloaded and massive problems during real use but not the other way around.

It's a Tula and it has a triangle with an arrow stamp on the bolt on one side, so I guess the bolt doesn't match, surprising though, it really doesn't look like anything was ground off the bolt. I found a guy with one exactly like mine, all matching stamped numbers, same year, Tula and Depot 25 with an Izhevsk bolt. He just doesn't have the orange paint, but he does have the shim.

I've inspected the bolt but have never seen one before in person. It looks well machined and very smooth, the camming areas were a bit rough so I polished to 2500 grit. What other areas should I focus on?

I just really want it to operate smooth, what do you guys recommend I do?

EDIT: I reassembled the bolt without the spring, inserted it and as can be expected opening was perfectly smooth all the time. Closing was still stiff and clunky, mostly towards the end.
 
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Sounds like the bolt or receiver are out of spec. They were probably hand fitted on the originals. Swap the bolt head and if necessary the bolt body.

Nearly every 91/30 is actually a mixmaster, only a few 1943 Izhevsk (only know about ones in the USA) that came with the refurbs were actually original "light" refurbs (refinished). The only other original 91/30s you'll find are Spanish Civil War and Finnish captures but those again are almost always buggered or refurbished.

As far as force matching goes there are 4 kinds:

1) Line out and stamp over / beside
2) Grind and electro pencil
3) Grind and stamp incomplete serial number
4) Grind and stamp full serial

The grinding is almost always not evident as the parts were polished. Look for subtle differences in font type and size.
 
Using the font method I now know the bolt is not original, but the rest are to the barrel as far as I can tell, font is identical.

At this point it seems like a lapping compound to smooth the movement and maybe snipping a coil is the way to go. I am more interested in fixing my Mosin than discovering if I have a rare one.
 
ConfederateRedneckJew said:
Using the font method I now know the bolt is not original, but the rest are to the barrel as far as I can tell, font is identical.

At this point it seems like a lapping compound to smooth the movement and maybe snipping a coil is the way to go. I am more interested in fixing my Mosin than discovering if I have a rare one.
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Try rifle grease on the lugs and shoulders. I had a M48A that was slick as snot. When I cleaned it and removed the oil form the mating surfaces it would be very sticky. Try that before removing material/polishing, etc.
 
Clean the area where the receiver meets the chamber too.
It's hard to get at, but old oil/cosmo can build up there and can be almost invisible when looking in the action.
 
OK I will keep cleaning. But I found a big burr in the rear of the chamber that caught a lot of dye when I was testing for contact points, I feel this would explain why the bolt gets stuck halfway on closing and then continues fairly smoothly, and then also presumably why I get stuck there trying to push the spring back because of the added resistance.

I've used mineral spirits, boiling water and ballistol all multiple times, how can there be any left? Looks like I might have to get a drill with a 20gauge brush and spin away with ballistol or a very fine lapping compound.
 
Looks like this will be the most expensive cheap rifle ever. Anyone know where to buy a cheap brass brush around Vancouver? I need 20 gauge ideally. Then I'll need to get my drill back and because I don't feel like spending 25$ on JB bore cleaner which should really cost 12$ and be available in smaller quantities I'll use Ballistol on it. If it isn't smooth after that I will have to buy some lapping compound, any recommendation as to where to get it? I need something fairly fine and hopefully in small quantities.
 
ConfederateRedneckJew said:
Looks like this will be the most expensive cheap rifle ever. Anyone know where to buy a cheap brass brush around Vancouver? I need 20 gauge ideally. Then I'll need to get my drill back and because I don't feel like spending 25$ on JB bore cleaner which should really cost 12$ and be available in smaller quantities I'll use Ballistol on it. If it isn't smooth after that I will have to buy some lapping compound, any recommendation as to where to get it? I need something fairly fine and hopefully in small quantities.
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Amazon, Lever, Reliable.
 
I had the exact same problem with a 91/30 I bought last fall. After measuring every piece of the bolt in comparison to a sister rifle, it came down to a longer firing pin spring. It was all I had in me to retract the bolt. In total I snipped 3.5 coils off the fp spring and now she operates slick as snot.If you shorten the spring, go 1 coil at a time and test it to see what difference it made, you'll find the sweet spot after a while. Good luck.
 
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