Strange Powder Storage Situation
- Thread starter veeshooter
- Start date
I've had that same thing happen to commercial containers.
It happened twice, the first time when several containers of Bofors #44 (3031) deteriorated and gave off nasty, acidic fumes. It was so bad that even the metal shelving with poly-coated surfaces rusted wherever it was chipped or scratched.
The second time it happened was when a large quantity of #47N (N160) deteriorated and released the same acidic fumes.
If I were you, I would carefully wipe down all of those surfaces with a water/vinegar mix, then open each one and check for one or more of the container contents that have likely broken down and are leaking acidic fumes.
You should open them outside, and be very careful with how you check the contents.
It's OK to do a sniff test for the harsh acidic aroma but only from the side, where you only get a mild whiff. If you open the lid and stick your nose in, then take a deep breath, you're going to regret it.
I've had powder on the verge of breaking down and it usually shows up as "rust" dust on the powder kernels. It's fine to shoot until it isn't.
I recently lost several pounds of IMR4320 when it became obvious something was awry with widely varying velocities between shots.
It happened twice, the first time when several containers of Bofors #44 (3031) deteriorated and gave off nasty, acidic fumes. It was so bad that even the metal shelving with poly-coated surfaces rusted wherever it was chipped or scratched.
The second time it happened was when a large quantity of #47N (N160) deteriorated and released the same acidic fumes.
If I were you, I would carefully wipe down all of those surfaces with a water/vinegar mix, then open each one and check for one or more of the container contents that have likely broken down and are leaking acidic fumes.
You should open them outside, and be very careful with how you check the contents.
It's OK to do a sniff test for the harsh acidic aroma but only from the side, where you only get a mild whiff. If you open the lid and stick your nose in, then take a deep breath, you're going to regret it.
I've had powder on the verge of breaking down and it usually shows up as "rust" dust on the powder kernels. It's fine to shoot until it isn't.
I recently lost several pounds of IMR4320 when it became obvious something was awry with widely varying velocities between shots.
Thanks to all who have contributed! Upon examining things a little further, the "dust " we're seeing is in fact magnetic. I checked the powder on each container and it all seems pristine with no dust in any. I'll burn test it before I use it and start at minimum loads just to be on the safe side, but from the info here, and some other threads I read on line, I appear to remain in the safe zone.
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Just to answer a few of the questions: the powder is stored in heavy duty plastic totes, and everything passed the sniff test. Also, someone asked about the containers. All the containers were repurposed legit powder containers, just the older style with metal lids.
There was corrosion on the inside of the lid as well when I got around to opening them all.
redbirddog
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Maple Syrup land Ontario
The reason I ask about the totes...... Air cannot move around and escape. Like being in a plastic bag sealed tight. I see reactions happening on a micro level, in a boxed up space. Imagine if that would happen if you had good air flow it probably would of vented off and not reacted as much.
Do research on Natural resourced Canada. I store my power in wood boxes as per regulations. Look it up. Plastic is a poor choice.... off gassing, trapping air flow and with explosive materials in a hydrocarbon tomb that are breathing and all mixing... looking at the reaction. WOW. lucky you did not have any static discharge. How long did you leave them there with out inspecting them?
Read the regs, move over to wood storage boxes.
Do research on Natural resourced Canada. I store my power in wood boxes as per regulations. Look it up. Plastic is a poor choice.... off gassing, trapping air flow and with explosive materials in a hydrocarbon tomb that are breathing and all mixing... looking at the reaction. WOW. lucky you did not have any static discharge. How long did you leave them there with out inspecting them?
Read the regs, move over to wood storage boxes.
I appreciate the info. I'll be moving them out of the totes tonight! I'm in and out of those bins fairly regularly, but it's been well over a month since I've been in the rifle powders.
I don't like storing anything in plastic totes either. All my reloading components are in a closet that's NOT located in the basement and my home is controlled at all times by the AC or furnace, depending on the season. Sure, I get a ton of nosebleeds, but at least my powder is dry!
Yeah... powder storage is funny, dry and steady temp is kinda the norm, ventilation isn't normally mentioned, but is probably the number 1 cause of this sort of deterioration situation.
Dunno why or what causes off gassing and the deterioration of metal with powder, hasn't happened to me yet. I do have some recycled 1lb cans that are probably 20 years old, with surplus ball powder in them that is 40 years old, but I always keep that styrofoam lid in there between the cap, or if it got trashed I cover the lid with plastic and seal it up.
Dunno why or what causes off gassing and the deterioration of metal with powder, hasn't happened to me yet. I do have some recycled 1lb cans that are probably 20 years old, with surplus ball powder in them that is 40 years old, but I always keep that styrofoam lid in there between the cap, or if it got trashed I cover the lid with plastic and seal it up.
When powder breaks down enough to create enough fumes for that kind of rust, any I've seen, is clumped and in one case looked moist.
Should have added that in my last post.
Which would indicate the corrosive fumes originate inside the cans. That powder might not be bad yet but it's on its way. If possible, I'd load and shoot that stuff ASAP.
There wasn't nearly as much as the outside mind you, and there wasn't corrosion on the inside of all of them. Probably not a bad idea all the same.
I'm just wondering here... but if the powder was breaking down it might create a slight positive pressure in the container, limiting the amount of oxygen present for the reaction necessary to form rust, thus limiting the amount inside the containers?
After 50 years and never a powder problem, this same thing happened with a bottle of 4007 SSC. Anyway, I'd brought it upstairs as there was a recall on it but hadn't called it in. Appeared fine, like all my other powders, some going back a long time. Anyways, in August Yellowknifers were told to evacuate. Put the bottle into an upper cabinet in the office.
Upon returning in September, I opened the cabinet door and reeled back as the lid was identical as Redbirddogs! Astonished I callled IMR, gave them the lot # and told them what had happened to their powder.
The chap I talked with asked for a photo, which I sent. Then he called back, saying he'd never seen anything like that and neither had others!
I did get a cheque eventually after dumping the contents which appeared okay in a water filled wheelbarrow.
My house has air to air so there was air movement throughout. My supposition was that while evacuated there may have been some smoke from the wildfires and it somehow choose that bottle and affected it. All my quantities of other powders were downstairs and not affected.
That particular bottle had sat downstairs for about 3-4 years, unopened. It did get opened when I brought it up for inspection but no smells, no sign of deterioration.
I'm still trying to figure this out, especially when IMR had never seen anything like it, just an orange coloured reaction! Other metal lids downstairs show no problem so I'm thinking maybe the paint on the lids wasn't compatible.
Otherwise, I'll join the crowds and blame it on Climate Change!
Upon returning in September, I opened the cabinet door and reeled back as the lid was identical as Redbirddogs! Astonished I callled IMR, gave them the lot # and told them what had happened to their powder.
The chap I talked with asked for a photo, which I sent. Then he called back, saying he'd never seen anything like that and neither had others!
I did get a cheque eventually after dumping the contents which appeared okay in a water filled wheelbarrow.
My house has air to air so there was air movement throughout. My supposition was that while evacuated there may have been some smoke from the wildfires and it somehow choose that bottle and affected it. All my quantities of other powders were downstairs and not affected.
That particular bottle had sat downstairs for about 3-4 years, unopened. It did get opened when I brought it up for inspection but no smells, no sign of deterioration.
I'm still trying to figure this out, especially when IMR had never seen anything like it, just an orange coloured reaction! Other metal lids downstairs show no problem so I'm thinking maybe the paint on the lids wasn't compatible.
Otherwise, I'll join the crowds and blame it on Climate Change!
When powder used to come in "laminated paper" containers, with metal caps, moisture used to be an issue. That hardly applies any more.
That being said, I still have powder in some of those old containers and am on the last four or five pounds of "4831", no prefix, that's 75+ years old, in the original factory laminated paper container. There isn't a seal per se', just a tight fitting lid with a 5cm overlap.
This powder is just as reliable now as it was when I purchased a ton of it over 50 years ago.
It's quite a bit faster than modern "H" 4831, so I keep it for "special" loads.
I have some spare plastic containers that I'm going to put this last lot into and get rid of the container, to create some space in the magazine.
It's too bad I tore off the original wrapping and just used a felt pen to mark the container. Now it's just an old container without value.
Powders are manufactured with expiration dates now. 10-15 years ago, that wasn't an issue.
Ganderite would be able to explain the details, I'm sure, but it's definitely going to be an ongoing problem and make "surplus" ammunition a thing of the past, unless they're using different components in their mix for martial orders.
