Strange problem with a SxS

peterf

peterf

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I have a 16 gauge Zabala box lock with a greener type cross bolt that has a strange problem.

When I shoot the right barrel the lever that opens it locks up tight and I can't open the gun. When then I shoot the left barrel everything works as it should. If the chamber is empty when the trigger is pulled it doesn't happen. If there are snap caps in it is sometimes stiff when only the front trigger is pulled but it will open.

It took me a while to find out that it had this problem because I used the gun to shoot clays at first and always shot both barrels before opening it. It only showed up when I started hunting with this gun.

Has anyone had a similar problem with a SxS or have an idea what it could be? I have had the gun apart a few times and I can't find anything that seems unusual or wrong.
 
It sounds like your right hand firing pin is not retracting after the right barrel shot. The pin is probably still protruding out of the breech face and the pin nose is still embedded in the primer of the fired shell. When you fire the other barrel it jars loose. The firing pin should be spring loaded to the retracted position, this spring may be broken ( if a separate firing pin) or it could be dirty or rusty. Also, check to make sure that your chambers are clean and especially not pitted..
 
Thanks for the reply's. I will check the firing pin but why would it lock the opening lever. It will not budge at all. I have had a SxS in the past with the firing pin not retracting and it would not open but the lever on that one would unlock it.
 
Does it have solid old school pins on the hammers or separate floating one's?
I had a nice Spanish 12 that sounds a lot like yours. To my surprise the firing pins were hammer mounted.
That might change the plan of attack is my thoughts
 
It will likely be an Anson and Deeley type action and if so the firing pin could be part of the striker, not a separate part. Also the front (right) trigger could be sticking and not rebounding after the shot, which would prevent that lock from recocking which in turn would interfere with the top lever travel. I would suggest a complete strip, clean and lube.
 
Ashcroft said:
... which would prevent that lock from recocking which in turn would interfere with the top lever travel. I would suggest a complete strip, clean and lube.
Click to expand...

That doesn't make any sense to me. You have to drop the barrels to re-####, and to do that you have to thumb the lever over. From what I understand from the OP the lever is freezing up after firing the right barrel.

Likewise for having the firing pins stick in the primers... that still shouldn't stop the lever from moving.
 
9.3 Mauser, you are correct but his lock up occurs only after firing the right barrel, he can then fire the left barrel without breaking the gun open. The gun will then open. It appears that the recoil jar of firing the second (left) barrel frees up whatever is binding. An Anson & Deeley action is a very simple and robust mechanism and there are very few ways that this sequence of events could occur. However, if the firing pin is part of the hammer ( striker) and this is sticking forward in the primer this part may interfere with the lever movement because it can't recock this right lock. Firing pins jamming into the primer was a big problem once upon a time when the pimers were sometimes soft and many guns were not equipped with rebounding hammers, a breakage or jam can cause the same thing today! I've seen it on guns of the same vintage as PeterF's gun. An outside possibility would be a broken part such as a top lever return spring or a dislodged spindle that could move out of alignment but neither of these things should be confined to just one side. PeterF, what happens if you fire the left barrel first, then the right? Does it still lock up? ( if it does, just rap the side of the action a time or two with a rubber mallet, it will likely release. I still feel that this gun needs to be completely stripped and the cause will be obvious, gummed up with hardened grease and dirt, or rust or a broken or distorted part. J.
 
Again, thanks for all of the reply's. When I fire the left barrel first it works as it should. I can open the action or I can fire the right barrel and then it opens fine. I will take it apart again over the next few days and check the things that you mentioned.
It had a complete strip, clean and lube about a year ago when I got it but I will do it again. You never know, something may not have been lubed properly the last time I did it.
 
Very strange if it works correctly when the left barrel is fired first. Are you positive that it was working properly after the last strip and clean? Is it possible that this problem has been there since this but not noticed because of the way the gun was being used, eg always firing two shots, right one first? A complete strip includes driving out the action cross pins and removing all the lock parts and the top lever spindle and locking bolt. Could some parts have been mixed up, say left hammer exchanged for right?
 
Could it be something wacky in the extractor or ejector mechanism of the right barrel? It would explain why it works fine when the right barrel is dry fired.
 
Dogfish 858, you might be on to something if the gun has ejectors because most boxlock ejectors are cocked by a small lever on the knuckle when the lock is fired. It could be sticking or jamming which could prevent the gun from opening, but I can't see the connection to the top lever?? Some types of ejectors are cocked by the operation of the top lever but I haven't seen this type on a Spanish gun.
 
The gun has extractors. During the last strip and clean the top lever spindle and locking bolts were not taken out. I guess I will have to completely dismantle it.
You are right, the problem could have been there all along because I only used it to shoot clays until this fall and always fired both barrels starting with the right one before opening the gun.
 
I wonder if inadequate headspace on the right barrel is canting the barrel to the left resulting in a burr on the crossbolt. No shell, no tension. Snap cap, some tension. Fired shell, enough tension to notch into the crossbolt.

Ashcroft is right the ejectors can jam the gun right up but shouldn't interfere with the under or toplever unless the design is extra clever.
 
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Well, we're getting into some very obscure and unlikely possibilities here now, I just feel that the cause is basic and simple.
1. PeterF says the problem could have been there since the last strip and clean. Was there any sign of internal rust or corrosion then? Any possibilty of the gun getting badly cooroded internally since then?
2. Was it working properly prior to this?
If so, I would suspect that a broken, damaged or incorrectly installed part is the culprit.
If the locking bolt ( or cross bolt if it has one ) is sticking it would prevent the top lever from turning and of course the gun from opening. I would suspect a problem in these areas or the spindle.
 
I took it to my friend's (leadpipemike on here) place because he has more experience with these than I do and it looks like he found the problem. The sear on the right barrel was bent a bit and dragging on a post that comes up from the bottom. This prevented the trigger from returning as Ashcroft said could be the problem. It seems to work great with snap caps and the trigger returns now. I will shoot it this weekend to confirm.
I am still a little confused as to why it worked when the left barrel was fired first and it didn't have a second shot to jar it loose but I only tried it once and it may have been a one off.
I'll update when I shoot it to confirm.
 
I shot it today and the problem is still there.

We did confirm that the trigger is not returning but it can be easily pushed back. It is definitely the sear dragging on the post that is holding it. I'm not sure why it only holds on shooting and not dry firing but we will try polishing everything more. The machining is pretty rough on parts of it and hopefully cleaning it up will fix it. We can't bend the sear out because it is pretty close to the one for the left barrel and if they get close enough to touch the gun could double.

We'll take it apart again this week and hopefully fix it.
 
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