The only gun without a safety I know of is CZ 45 in 6.35 Browning. It's DA only.By pulling a trigger, it cocks and drops the hammer and after firing it loads the chamber. Every time you want to fire, you have to pull the trigger to #### and drop the hammer.
Striker Fired - No Safety
- Thread starter Iltasyuko
- Start date
Only safety on striker fired. Is on the trigger. And you need this to activate it.
Nonsense any shirt tail will do.
Just get it caught in the trigger guard area and see if the other two safeties prevent the gun from firing. They won't. There is a reason why the US Army insisted their new pistol have an active manual safety on their SIG M17 Pistol. Their soldiers do get more training on their pistols than most here would.
For new pistol shooters buying striker fired pistols one has to place a lot of faith in Darwin's theories and where we stand in the evolution tree...just saying. From what I have seen the faith may well be misplaced.
Take Care
Bob
Again, it all comes down to training. The US military requirements ask for a safety because they always do for the small arms weapon system bids. Their opinion is the soldiers need a manual safety.
When employed properly mechanical safeties can still fail, when employed properly training does not fail.
Really, that seems to me to be a bit of a meaningless comment. That is like saying as long as you answer a question correctly you will always be right. As long as you are alive you are not dead. This is just a talking point, nothing more nothing less.
Most new shooters would be far better off starting off with either a revolver or DA/SA gun. One gun that simply cannot fire once the decocker is applied without the trigger being pulled is the Beretta 92 FS and siblings. Apply the decocker and the firing pin is disengaged completely from the hammer. Couple that with the triggers heavy DA trigger pull and you have a much safer design for a new shooter to develop his shooting skills. The revolvers have no mechanical safeties. I would wager there is no such thing as S&W Revolver Leg but I have heard of Glock Leg. I even know a shooter who has the resulting limp. He got his from holstering the gun and it wasn't his finger that pulled the trigger.
Most of those who have posted here are relatively experienced shooters. I would wager that most own a Glock. Some shoot a lot and know what they are holding on to and are not married to their preferred handgun. Others beat the drum of Glock Marketing and internet myth. The platform of a striker fired pistol is an excellent one. I love them, shoot them and prefer them for most of my shooting activities. They are not pistols I would recommend for a new shooter unless they had a manual active safety.
The US Army didn't insist on a manual safety because they always do. They did so because they recognize that most of their recruits will have little or no firearm experience and a trained soldier represents a significant investment and reducing the needless loss of individuals is something to pursue. The Canadian Army, last I heard still carry their pistols, when not in theatre, loaded, but not ready. johnl the British Army applied the same practice for the same reason with their Hi-Powers and I suspect still do with their Glocks when not in theatre. It sure as hell wasn't because they thought their manual safeties would fail. Proper training may not fail...it is the humans that fail, trained or not.
Take Care
Bob
- Location
- West Quebec
Well said Bob especially the "new shooters" part
And several billion revolvers. Most do not have a safety catch. I have one that does. The only one I have ever seen.
The mag safety on the High-Power in the British army was a common cause of accidents, since the unload drill involved inserting the magazine and pulling the trigger. Guess what the problem was. Two guys were playing the fire a pencil game in a sangar one night, one recocked the hammer, the other racked the slide and put a pencil straight through his colleague, killing him.
All firearms, except maybe the Sten sputter gun have a mechanical device to stop the gun firing by itself, but it is a stretch to call this a "safety" when it is really a sear. I do have a Glock, but I would not want to carry it IWB, even if I could.
I had an antique revolver with a slot in the hammer, and a safety that moved into the slot, a very nice design.
All firearms, except maybe the Sten sputter gun have a mechanical device to stop the gun firing by itself, but it is a stretch to call this a "safety" when it is really a sear. I do have a Glock, but I would not want to carry it IWB, even if I could.
I had an antique revolver with a slot in the hammer, and a safety that moved into the slot, a very nice design.
What revolvers have and most striker fired pistols, including Glock, don't have is a long heavy trigger pull. Too, when holstering, I cannot place my thumb on the hammer, like I do for my DA/SA guns. If my shirt were to catch the trigger I would feel the hammer coming back. Not so with a striker fired gun.
What I object to is, most here know better.
But time and again a new shooter, as in this case, one who has never owned a handgun in his life comes to this forum and asks ..."What should I buy" The response buy a Glock, M&P, XD, PPQ .... they are super reliable, in expensive and I love mine" or variations of. This is followed buy, the Blaster has three safeties followed by "all the AD's you hear or read about are caused by improper/no training". it isn't long before the chorus rings out. to justify their purchase. I admit I, at times am as guilty as others.
Well how about we all sit back and remember when we started out. Most here survive there first encounters with a striker fired pistol more by luck then skill. My hands up... how about yours? Some are not so lucky. Hell I even survived unscathed an AD in my holster during the draw and don't tell me I didn't have enough "training" or "time" on striker fired pistols when it happened. Even the best trained run afoul of human error as a tragic incident a year or two illustrates. Just try to remember who is asking the question they deserve the best advice we can give them. Not a recap of the latest marketing hype from a manufacturer.
Take Care
Bob
What I object to is, most here know better.
But time and again a new shooter, as in this case, one who has never owned a handgun in his life comes to this forum and asks ..."What should I buy" The response buy a Glock, M&P, XD, PPQ .... they are super reliable, in expensive and I love mine" or variations of. This is followed buy, the Blaster has three safeties followed by "all the AD's you hear or read about are caused by improper/no training". it isn't long before the chorus rings out. to justify their purchase. I admit I, at times am as guilty as others.
Well how about we all sit back and remember when we started out. Most here survive there first encounters with a striker fired pistol more by luck then skill. My hands up... how about yours? Some are not so lucky. Hell I even survived unscathed an AD in my holster during the draw and don't tell me I didn't have enough "training" or "time" on striker fired pistols when it happened. Even the best trained run afoul of human error as a tragic incident a year or two illustrates. Just try to remember who is asking the question they deserve the best advice we can give them. Not a recap of the latest marketing hype from a manufacturer.
Take Care
Bob
- Location
- Nova Scotia
Not even the British Army. Happened in the Canadian Army. I lost a co worker and a friend overseas. One cocked with hammer, one racked the slide.
Well said Bob, just for the record, I have never owned a Glock, I did bit the bullet and buy a Canik sfx as I wanted to try out one with a red dot sight, But though I liked the gun and sight , trigger just strange to me, as I shoot target 22's and tuned single action 1911's or my revolvers.
Coaching new shooters, , I see a lot that don't even know how a gun operates, they get a RPAL and don't have a clue
Coaching new shooters, , I see a lot that don't even know how a gun operates, they get a RPAL and don't have a clue
Here is the inheritant issue i have with training new people to shoot ANY gun that requires extra steps... those extra steps. Actions, switches, buttons... whatever.
Most people can remember one thing easily.... KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER. If they can't. Go home an play with bubble wrap.
But can they remember to "KEEP THEIR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER AND SWIPE YOUR THUMB DOWN ON THE DECOCKER, OR IS IT UP TO APPLY THE SAFETY OR DO YOU FLIP THE THINGY UP, OR WAS THAT DOWN OR... AND UNDER STRESS WILL I PUT THE COCKED AND UNLOCKED 1911 IN MY HOLSTER WHERE 2 LBS WILL SHOOT ME OR DID I DECOCK THE THINGY OR OMG TOO MANY BUTTONS...??!!
Or will the LEO under extreme stress of a shoot out forget to push the button before he hits the bang switch so the gun doesn't fire...?
Or forget to hit the decocker while he has the gun trained on a suspect during a takedown and now he has a 2lbs trigger instead of a 7-14 lbs trigger.?
All of these scenarios exist and have happened. Not just "Glock Leg" 1911 and SIG Leg is a thing too.
You forgot to get into the fine motor skill/large motor skill argument to justify the early Glocks small slide release levers. Lever which are much larger in the Gen5 iteration. Manual safeties have a place on a pistol. Don't get into the stupid argument that manipulating a manual safety or decocker is as difficult as explaining Quantum Physics to a kinder garden student. I shot IPSC for two years with a 1911 and manipulated the safety on and off with each transition with about as much difficulty as breathing and I am about as athletic as an inactive gnat. If you have difficulty with these skill sets don;t assume everyone does. From my experience running new shooter courses courses most folks either have the skill when they arrive or learn to do manipulate the slide release/ safety/decocker in short order. It is not as difficult as you imply.
Take Care
Bob
ps I love striker fired pistols particularly the more advanced designs. Some are capable of outstanding accuracy out of the box. My PPQ Match will shoot with my Dlask prepared 1911 or my tuned CZ 85 Combat or any of my Shadows. The SIG XFive with an Optic plays in the same league.
