Stuck case - brand specific issue.

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cptchaos

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I have spent considerable time standing around the range with some fellow reloaders and no solutions have been found so far. Here is the problem submitted for collective consideration:

My Savage Model 12 FTR in .308 is a good shooting rifle. Unfortunately, about 1 out of 3 cases get stuck after firing. It has done this since the rifle was new. What is odd is that it only does it with Federal or Winchester brass. The brass does not stick with new bullets and Lapua brass reloads work like a charm. This is not a head space or case length issue as those items have been carefully checked. I shoot a fairly hot load but the primers are not flat or cratered to any significant degree. I have cleaned the chamber and measured the spent brass. Still no indicators of problems have emerged.

I am content to use Lapua brass but would like to hear if anyone else has encountered a problem like this.

Any ideas?
 
had issues with a 7mm mag, same load in nickle plated brass would stick yet unplated wouldn't. I was a grain and a half below max charge on the powder load and had no pressure issues.

weigh the brass, heavier brass obviously has less capacity and pressure will increase, also mic the base of the cases of the sticky brass, some cases are a little heavier in the base to begin with, .475, .476ish.

First question is however is this......Is there any resistance when you close the bolt as compared to closing the bolt on say lapua brass.

First brillant observation is this... Don't mix headstamps when reloading, also work up loads in all different manuafactures of brass for the obvious reasons of what you mentioned, pressure might be slightly higher in one brand versus another.

Second brillant observation is this...What dies are you using to size and was the brass fired in only this rifle? Does a sized case stick in the chamber? Is there more force required to close the bolt on a sized brass versus a sized brass of a different make?
 
cptchaos said:
I shoot a fairly hot load but the primers are not flat or cratered to any significant degree.

...cases get stuck after firing.

Still no indicators of problems have emerged.
Click to expand...

Loads too hot.

Reduce your load using the Winchester and Federal brass and see what happens.
 
Yodi.... no resistance at all when closing the bolt. I agree with your comment about using one brass. It is just damn puzzling why brass would make such a difference. If I did not know about Lapua brass, I would have a real problem.

I get the same problem no matter how much I reduce the load. I have ranged between 42 to 46 grains of Varget with the same result. (Shooting 168 SMK)
 
full length size your brass and check the measurement of the base of the cases.
I used to make 30x44 brass from 308 but if the base was .475 or bigger I couldn't chamber the brass, I started making them from 300 savage instead.

Are you using brass that was always fired in that rifle or are you scrounging once fired stuff? Sometimes spending a dime to save a nickle just aint worth it in the end lol
 
What about these ideas:

Perhaps some brass may not have enough spring back left. So depending on the number of firings, brass could get a bit sticky. First signs are sooting on or near the shoulder. May be time to anneal.

How do you clean your brass? I found dirty necks or imbedded dust can grip. Perhaps a good clean may help.

Finally, may be time to bump back the shoulders. If chambering is getting more forceful, or you feel resistance on closing the bolt, its time. Found some brass really likes to stick after firing when it gets to this point.

My two bits.
 
~ Seating depth incorrect, too long or too short.
~ Wrong primer.
~ Powder measure not throwing accurately.

~ Throat too short.
~ Extractor not working correctly.
~ Rough chamber.
 
Weak or damaged extractor.

If this is a bronze part, change it - Savage is supposed to warranty this????

The next extractors are all black. I have spares.

It has to do with the extractor groove size in the case and will vary from make to make, lot to lot.

If the extractor is 'short' or chipped, it will not extend far enough to grab the case.

Most likely problem.

Jerry
 
Jerry,

It's not the extractor the problem,I think.
The brass is sticking in the chamber and hard to extract...

I think it's time to do a full resize...Or not..LOL
 
Mystic Precision said:
Weak or damaged extractor.

If this is a bronze part, change it - Savage is supposed to warranty this????

The next extractors are all black. I have spares.

It has to do with the extractor groove size in the case and will vary from make to make, lot to lot.

If the extractor is 'short' or chipped, it will not extend far enough to grab the case.

Most likely problem.

Jerry
Click to expand...


I had this problem with a CRF in 7 mag, it was a pressure issue with the thicker brass, had to massage the bolt open with a rubber mallet. Solved the issue by not loading anymore nickel plated brass, mind you that wasn't a savage, and we all know about their weak extractors, but it sounds more like his brass is cold welding to the chamber.
 
My Savage 10BA did that with neck-sized S&B brass. This model, and maybe yours, comes from the factory with exceptionally tight head space tolerance. I resolved the issue by avoiding S&B brass.
 
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When I was developing a load for my .223 Savage 12FV i would put marks on the case with a Sharpie so I new what the load was. I had problems with stuck cases with several brands of brass. No hot loads either. I cleaned the chamber very well and stopped the Sharpie thing and have not had another stuck case in over 1000 rounds.

I would recommend cleaning the chamber very well, it might be the problem.

Terry
 
Thanks guys....

Some good ideas. I intend to clean the chamber well (again) and check specs carefully. I was interested in the brass welding comment. I have never heard of that before. Could be interesting to read up on that. I did not think of pressure differences either. It may be that the hot load issue is being generated by slightly smaller case capacity.

cheers
 
Had very sticky case issues with my 300 Win mag sendero, extra tight factory chamber, would do it with factory ammo even. Gift/Curse. Switched to small base sizer and problem disappeared.
 
http://www.rcbs.com/guide/step_by_step_reloading.aspx#

Small Base Sizing

Some firearms will require that fired cases be returned to approximately unfired dimensions. This is the purpose of the so called small base sizing die. In essence, this is nothing more than a standard full length sizing die, which has been reamed to absolute minimum dimensions. Tight chambers, a lack of camming power, or a combination of these may require cases to be sized to these smaller dimensions to assure positive chambering. As we have noted, most conventional full length sizing dies reduce a case’s fired dimensions enough to allow the case to be easily rechambered, without bringing it down to its original, unfired dimensions. In some instances, this will not quite be sufficient to assure positive operation and functioning. This most often occurs in firearms that lack the camming power of a bolt action, such as semi-autos, pumps, and lever actions. Sierra has worked with a large number of these types of firearms that functioned perfectly well with conventional full length dies, and suggest resorting to small base dies only if they prove to be necessary. They do work the brass more, and will usually result in reduced case life.

Die adjustment for a small base sizing die is exactly the same as for a full length sizing die, but special emphasis should be paid to avoid exceeding allowable headspace dimensions. Chamber type case gages, such as those available from L.E. Wilson, or micrometer gages like the RCBS Precision Case Mic are extremely useful in adjusting small base dies.
 
For the purposes of this thread, poor extraction, Small Base Sizing Dies are probably not a solution nor a consideration.
 
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