Stun Baton Legality westrifle.com

I was wondering what all the fuss was at the Kamloops show with these.

"Tactical" "assault" cattleprods I guess.

Intent is a real issue. The intent with these anywhere in the face of the law is pretty self explanatory.
 
Just carry a can of wasp spray in your car, the stuff that shoots 25+ feet. I hear it will instantly blind your attacker, haven't try ed it yet.
 
I am confused on what were you trying to say kodiakjack . I know now what it is used for and why is it legal to sell. Even a baseball bad can be classify as a weapon in court.

Thank you everyone who answered my questions
 
kodiakjack said:
Methinks westrifle needs separate business and personal accounts.

Having a front row seat to a firearms dealer getting their regulatory advice from an online forum does not instill confidence. If that's how dealers are rolling, I'd rather not know. Ignorance is bliss, as they say.
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westrifle_sks said:
I am confused on what were you trying to say kodiakjack . I know now what it is used for and why is it legal to sell. Even a baseball bad can be classify as a weapon in court.

Thank you everyone who answered my questions
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I think what he's trying to say is that you as a dealer should already be aware of background information surrounding products you're likely to sell, and that it doesn't give consumers much confidence in your expertise. Just a guess though, I could be wrong.
 
Longshot84 said:
I think what he's trying to say is that you as a dealer should already be aware of background information surrounding products you're likely to sell, and that it doesn't give consumers much confidence in your expertise. Just a guess though, I could be wrong.
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Yeah pretty much. It's just that most DEALERS keep their dealer threads focused on their products and services, as opposed to personal questions and inquiries. It's no big deal, it's just a professionalism thing.

Like, imagine you were on a car forum, and the Ford dealer started a thread called "Does Firestone make any tires that fit an F-150?"... It's a valid question, but when it comes from a dealer, it seems kind of backwards. Typically the consumer would ask that question of the dealer. If the dealer didn't know, they'd discretely research the answer, then get back to the consumer.

I really don't mind, westrifle... I only mentioned it cuz I thought you might be able to polish up your professional image a tad. I'm sure most dealers on here also have personal logins that allows them to loosen their ties a bit.

But whatever. No biggie.


But as to your question, I've seen stun flashlights (not to be confused with stun fleshlights) that would be much easier to carry around for a "proper" purpose.
 
westrifle_sks said:
I am wondering how those stun cane and batons are legal and also do those work s shocker ? Can someone actually use it if attacked? Can I keep it in my car?

Thnx
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I dunno if you can "Keep it in your car"
I keep a pipe in the back of my truck that I Use as a snipe for boomers when hauling stuff on my car trailer..
I do not have my trailer with me at all times...
Then there is the axe in the back of the truck , or the hammer in the back seat, these are all "tools to me"
However if one was to come at me with a knife or some other weapon there is a chance that the use at that particular instance would change:rolleyes:

But day to day they are just there for the ride, and because about the time I might want them I will have forgotten them at home;)

Do you walk a lot out on trails and stuff ?
Where you might actually need a walking stick ?
 
Scruffie said:
I bought a Baton from CanAm thinking it would an interesting toy or party prop and give a mild zap. I was mistaken big time. That sucker packs quite a wallop (tested on myself). Even 1/2 hr later found myself unconsciously still flexing and checking my hand where i zapped myself. It is certainly not a toy to be trifled with.
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I had someone demo one for me at High Caliber. He sparked it off and I nearly Sh1t. He offered me a 20% discount if I was willing to be tested. Funny guy! I hate shocks. I work on machines and I've had a couple of minor shocks. Nothing like that though and I am not willing to try it. You're made of tougher stuff than I am!
 
KeltecFan said:
I had someone demo one for me at High Caliber. He sparked it off and I nearly Sh1t. He offered me a 20% discount if I was willing to be tested. Funny guy! I hate shocks. I work on machines and I've had a couple of minor shocks. Nothing like that though and I am not willing to try it. You're made of tougher stuff than I am!
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Ya never knows til ya tries!.:ang3 You ever in the LML give me a hollar. We can take turns testing it out. :p Believe me. You'll only want to do it once,Laugh2
 
kodiakjack said:
Yeah pretty much. It's just that most DEALERS keep their dealer threads focused on their products and services, as opposed to personal questions and inquiries. It's no big deal, it's just a professionalism thing.

Like, imagine you were on a car forum, and the Ford dealer started a thread called "Does Firestone make any tires that fit an F-150?"... It's a valid question, but when it comes from a dealer, it seems kind of backwards. Typically the consumer would ask that question of the dealer. If the dealer didn't know, they'd discretely research the answer, then get back to the consumer.

I really don't mind, westrifle... I only mentioned it cuz I thought you might be able to polish up your professional image a tad. I'm sure most dealers on here also have personal logins that allows them to loosen their ties a bit.

But whatever. No biggie.


But as to your question, I've seen stun flashlights (not to be confused with stun fleshlights) that would be much easier to carry around for a "proper" purpose.
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Yup, I agree with you. Also, it really isn't a big deal IMO either. I do lose a bit of confidence though when a dealer (an expert in their field) who should be focused on building trust with me as a customer is instead focusing on getting basic product knowledge. Good for thought anyway. Opinions are like assh*les as they say, so take mine with a grain of salt.
 
I dunno guys, I'm totally Ok with a dealer having a curious mind. Our laws are so opaque and self contradictory, so much of it is open to interpretation...

Sometimes posing an open ended question can lead to interesting insights and new product ideas. Knowing more than just "yes, X is legal", but also why and how it is legal, can open up entire new avenues for everyone.
 
grelmar said:
I dunno guys, I'm totally Ok with a dealer having a curious mind. Our laws are so opaque and self contradictory, so much of it is open to interpretation...

Sometimes posing an open ended question can lead to interesting insights and new product ideas. Knowing more than just "yes, X is legal", but also why and how it is legal, can open up entire new avenues for everyone.
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I fully agree... There's no such thing as a dumb question, and even if a question is perceived as "dumb", the discussion surrounding it can be very valuable. My only point was that the question doesn't need to come from the dealer's digital storefront. The question, as posed, would be equally effective coming from the user iheartriflesfromthewest who's not listed as a dealer.

But again. No biggie.
 
I bought on from Hical and had in confiscated by the Abbotsford PD . (no I was not using it on anyone or anything other than flies) my response from the abby PD below.

Hi Tino,

I answered your question with respect to obtaining a copy of the report, you can apply for it through the FOI. With respect to the putting a stop to importing the device, that is a question you will have to ask CBSA and other government entities. As far as the other devices you mentioned, that would need to be investigated should one be seized from anyone and again an expert opinion would need to be sought.

Please keep in mind that anything can be purchased on the internet from anywhere. The buyer of any item(s) must ensure that they conform with our Canadian laws and regulations if they are being brought into this country.

Cst Troughton 397
Abbotsford Police

Thanks for your fairly quick response,

but you still leave me with unanswered question. How do I get a copy of Cst Quaglia report ? Are you then going to put a stop to the importer of said devise ? If I go and purchase the stun/flashlight walking cane , is it also a prohibited devise? If I were to be in possession of a cattle prod , is that a prohibited device. It looks as though you are leaving me with no choice but to seek legal counsel on these matters & to proceed as needed.


Thanks, Tino

On May 3rd, 2016 Cst Quaglia of the APD, a court expert with respect to non firearm prohibited weapons inspected the said weapon seized from you by Cst Moore on April 4th 2016. The seized weapon in question was a stun baton flashlight.

Cst Quaglia provided a detailed written report; as a result of that report which cited excertpts of Legislation from the Criminal Code of Canada and open source information, his expert opinion based on his training and knowledge of Canadian Law with respect to non firearm prohibited weapons backed by his Court appointed "expert" designation, Cst Quaglia has determined the stun baton flashlight a prohibited weapon by definition of the Criminal Code of Canada.

As you are most likely aware, anyone found in possession of a prohibited weapon in Canada is subject to arrest for several different criminal offences based on why it is in ones possession and why it was intended to be used or was used.

Based upon the findings of Cst Quaglia, the stun baton flashlight will not be returned to you. The prohibited weapon will be retained by the APD for training and educational purposes to educate other police officers in the effort to continue to keep and maintain our community safety commitment.

As per APD policy, I am not able to provide you with a copy of Cst Quaglia's report. If you should require a copy of that report you will need to apply for it through the Freedom Of Information Act (FOI). The APD front counter staff will be more than happy to assist you in that matter if required.

Thank you for your understanding.

With respect;

Cst Chris Troughton 397
Abbotsford Police

Hi Constable Troughton,

I'm not sure if you received my previous emails ; so I will repeat what was sent in them . I know that you are aware that Constable Moore confiscated my stun baton , citing that it was a prohibited weapon. I explained to him that in the 2016 Martins Annual Criminal Code(Canada law book) that on page 183, section 84 , FORMER Prohibited weapons order Part 3 , number 6 STATES :

- 6 Any device that is designed to be capable of injuring, immobilizing or incapacitating a person or an animal by discharging an electrical charge produced by means of the amplification or accumulation of the electrical current generated by a battery, where the device is designed or altered so that the electrical charge may be discharged when the device is of a length of less than 480 mm, and any similar device..

Even with this information , Constable Moore insisted that I was wrong & he would advise you & let me know his findings. I then received a phone call from Cst. Moore citing that you had confirmed that the stun baton was indeed a prohibited weapon. I have since checked with the R.C.M.P. & again with the current criminal Code & find both of you incorrect. Since then I have contacted Legal counsel & have been advised that neither you or Constable Moore have filed a 5.2 with the Provincial court of Abbotsford. I am hoping that you can admit your mistake & return my baton (in good working order) to avoid me having to proceed with further legal action.


Thank you , Tino
 
So basically they said "we arent giving it back, nor are we destroying it.we are keeping it for ourselves so we can further train our officers in the confiscation of private property "

I guess they dont keep a copy of the laws they enforce handy for reference.
 
pipeliner said:
My good friend got charged with two counts of possessing prohibited weapons.
The cop said even if they are legal for bear defence, he's laying charges and its up to him to prove intent in court.
He was working up in Grand Prairie and got pulled over on his way home, the officer didn't like that he had them in the vehicle and he was not enroute to the outdoors..

Having said that, I own a cane. It's very cool, but now I'm nervous to leave the house with it.
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What does it matter why he had it in his car? The device is legal. It was not being used illegally. I think that cop is just on a power trip and should lose his job. Prove intent? Does that mean that because I own firearms I should be arrested and have to prove in court that I'm not going to commit murder? What happened to innocent UNTIL proven guilty.
 
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