SU16 with crappy scope vs Nork CQ with good scope

harbl_the_cat

harbl_the_cat

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Hit the range today pinning my SU16 with Canadian Tire Special Cheapo Bushnell 3-9x40 scope with no-name $2 Cheapo DX High Mounted Chinese rings vs Nork CQ with RRA Cantilever mount with Trijicon 1-4x24 Accupoint.

The key takeaway is the Cheapo Busnhell is getting relegated to 10/22 Archangel detail and I'm in the market for a new scope (I'm leaning towards a Burris AR-332).

With the SU16 using irons, at 25 yards I could get about a 2" group (shooting fast). At 50 yards using the scope, I was struggling to get 2" groupings - more realistically, I was getting 3-4" groupings.

With my Nork CQ with the Trijicon - I was getting 0.5" groups at 50 yards all day long.

Ammo was PMC Bronze and Federal AE223 (quite a big shift in POI - but group sizes were pretty consistent).

Do you think the Bushnell is scope enough for my 10/22?
Is Burris AR332 scope enough for the SU16?
My Nork with the Trijicon is my favorite centre fire gun... I love it.
 
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I hate to say this, because I have an su-16 and like it a lot. However the grouping it makes, sucks! Even worse with bulk norinco ammo. The su16 isn't a tack driver. Remember this gun sells for $350 new in the US. So really how much is the thing worth and you really get what you pay for. As for the markup, thank Vault for the monopoly.
I wish Canadians would stand up and tell Keltec about how bad they are for business up here!!!
 
little_airwolf said:
I hate to say this, because I have an su-16 and like it a lot. However the grouping it makes, sucks! Even worse with bulk norinco ammo. The su16 isn't a tack driver. Remember this gun sells for $350 new in the US. So really how much is the thing worth and you really get what you pay for. As for the markup, thank Vault for the monopoly.
I wish Canadians would stand up and tell Keltec about how bad they are for business up here!!!
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I agree .. i have nothing good to say about Vault , they would not even fix my defective rifle that i payed double the price it sells for in the US .. I dont really have anything against Keltec but vault are a bunch of greedy scammers .. There is no way the SU16 or Sub2000 should be over $500 here .. I wonder if Irunguns can import them?
 
boss351cleveland said:
I agree .. i have nothing good to say about Vault , they would not even fix my defective rifle that i payed double the price it sells for in the US .. I dont really have anything against Keltec but vault are a bunch of greedy scammers .. There is no way the SU16 or Sub2000 should be over $500 here .. I wonder if Irunguns can import them?
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Why would they not fix it there has to be some reason. Did you do anything to it? Is it something that requires a break in before if not just contact Kel Tec and tell them your having problems ect.
 
What magnification were you using? Less magnification will reduce parralax error but the scope more than likely has a 100 yd parralax setting. You can unscrew the objective to dial parralax back to a shorter distance just like an AO but you will need something to stop it from rotating during recoil. The little spacer ring between the objective bell and end cap that houses the objective lens sets the parralax at its factory setting when tight. Be sure not to back it out too far or the nitrogen will leak out and let the scope fog internally. The norc ARs seem to shoot pretty good so it wouldn't surprise me if it out shoots the keltec. If you still think its the scope then try the trijicon on the keltec. That will tell you everything you need to know. I'm liking my Leupold VX-R patrol 1.25-4 but there are plenty of other good options that will depend on your use, expectations and budget.
 
I sold my SU-16 and got a Norc CQ-A, best choice I made as the Norinco will outshoot the Su-16 by a ridiculous margin! The kel tec is fun, light and NR, but it shot like crap. 4" groups at 100 metres that opened up to 9" groups after the third shot in 15 minutes! The Norinco shoots 2" at 100 metres all the time, hot barrel or cold. Same scope and mounts were used on both guns. If I had kept the SU-16, I would have not bothered with a scope for it as it shot red dot style groups anyway! I have a neighbor that is a fanatical distance shooter and he can make the Norinco shoot better than me but still had the heat stringing issues with the Kel tec as I did.
 
boss351cleveland said:
I agree .. i have nothing good to say about Vault , they would not even fix my defective rifle that i payed double the price it sells for in the US .. I dont really have anything against Keltec but vault are a bunch of greedy scammers .. There is no way the SU16 or Sub2000 should be over $500 here .. I wonder if Irunguns can import them?
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Yes they can.

Enjoy your Restricted Sub 2000 and SU-16.
 
1965BJS said:
I sold my SU-16 and got a Norc CQ-A, best choice I made as the Norinco will outshoot the Su-16 by a ridiculous margin! The kel tec is fun, light and NR, but it shot like crap. 4" groups at 100 metres that opened up to 9" groups after the third shot in 15 minutes! The Norinco shoots 2" at 100 metres all the time, hot barrel or cold. Same scope and mounts were used on both guns. If I had kept the SU-16, I would have not bothered with a scope for it as it shot red dot style groups anyway! I have a neighbor that is a fanatical distance shooter and he can make the Norinco shoot better than me but still had the heat stringing issues with the Kel tec as I did.
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That's EXACTLY what I saw too at 50.

Maybe with 2 T97's inbound, I should sell the Kel Tec...
 
I can't complain on the accuracy of my su16f, with a decent scope and sand bags and good ammo like fiocchi, i" groups at 100yrds. Cheap import ammo 2-3", haven't tried the Norinco stuff on the range yet. I do like the fact that i can take it out of the house without a bunch of paper work, it will be my truck gun when fixing fence.
 
"...using the scope..." The scope has nothing to do with accuracy. A scope doesn't make a poor shooting rifle any more accurate. It just lets you see the target better. With any .22(and a CF if you're not reloading), you have to try a box of as many brands as you can to find the ammo the rifle shoots best.
"...Kel Tec is fun...shot like crap..." KelTecs are well known for being junk.
 
Well, I'm going to part with the young girl... It's fun to shoot, it just hasn't grown on me, and I already have SKS's and 858's as fun guns to screw around with - and they are cheaper to shoot.

Especially if the best I can do is 2-3 MOA (even though I'm not a 2-3 MOA shooter), I think I'll pass'er on.

Besides, when the T97's arrive, I don't want to spend time specializing on 3 .223 Semi-auto platforms, and I'm reading the T97s is a more proven, reliable, durable product.

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/foru...el-Tec-SU16-725-shipped&p=8734257#post8734257
 
harbl_the_cat said:
Well, I'm going to part with the young girl... It's fun to shoot, it just hasn't grown on me, and I already have SKS's and 858's as fun guns to screw around with - and they are cheaper to shoot.

Especially if the best I can do is 2-3 MOA (even though I'm not a 2-3 MOA shooter), I think I'll pass'er on.

Besides, when the T97's arrive, I don't want to spend time specializing on 3 .223 Semi-auto platforms, and I'm reading the T97s is a more proven, reliable, durable product.

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/foru...el-Tec-SU16-725-shipped&p=8734257#post8734257
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The version being imported has been changed significantly from the original version from what I have understood. This is how North Sylva managed to keep their T97 rifle off the prohibited list. Whether or not the changes affect reliablility, durability, etc remains to be seen. I for one won't be jumping on the first run of these rifles.
 
Pistolwhiptricks said:
The version being imported has been changed significantly from the original version from what I have understood. This is how North Sylva managed to keep their T97 rifle off the prohibited list. Whether or not the changes affect reliablility, durability, etc remains to be seen. I for one won't be jumping on the first run of these rifles.
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Not a bad logic - but at the same time, it's a non-restricted .223 bullpup that takes AR mags... just for novelties sake, I think it's worth the tradeoff.
 
The Norinco CQ rifle seem to be really damn accurate , i have owned 3 of them and they all shot as good as any Colt or higher end AR i have shot , especially with a trigger upgrade .. They seem to have really high quality barrels with consistent chrome lining ,it reminds me of older Colts with the semi rough fit and finish compared to todays standards but they sure shot damn well. Mine will even shoot tighter groups at 100m than my Swiss Arms .. I really wish they made a full length 20 inch barrel model .
 
haha49 said:
Why would they not fix it there has to be some reason. Did you do anything to it? Is it something that requires a break in before if not just contact Kel Tec and tell them your having problems ect.
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The sub 2000 i had was impossible to zero because the windage adjustment was maxed out and it was still 6 inches off target at 25m , the front sight post was not canted at all , the problem was the receiver barrel alignment was ####ed , its been a issue in some recent sub2k that is known to keltec caused from a faulty jig .. Vault would not do #### for me .. they said their warranty does not cover accuracy and that im a bad shot loll What a #### that guy was ..
 
Funny thing. I also traded my SU16 for a used CQA and do not regret that decision. Only problem is I can't take my CQA out into the bush no matter how good it is in comparison.

As for Vault, they replaced my SU16 so I'm not sure what was different in that other case.
 
boss351cleveland said:
Yea but could Irunguns not order guns from keltec with canadian length barrels then import them here ? Its not like Vault re barrels them here .. unless Vault has some sort of contract with them that would make this not possible ?
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Vault has them made with Canadian NR length barrels and they have an exclusivity arrangement. This doesn't make it impossible to import either of the guns from the U.S., but the ones vault gets for us up here are not regular production guns... they are specifically made for the Canadian market. I will also add that the going rate for a new su-16 in the U.S. is about $600 (checked gunbroker earlier), so when you add on irunguns $100 import fee and shipping, it gets very close to the Canadian retail price.
 
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