Sub $500, 9mm recommendations for 1st pistol?

Dr.Islay said:
Thanks for posting. You're about to push me right off the fence with this particular pistol.

Any thoughts on the steel frame vs. polymer? As I don't own any polymers, I'm leaning this way as I find it more comfortable in my hand than a Glock 17 Gen4. Is it worth the extra expense for steel frame, or is it purely a question of personal preference?

Do you have any 6 mag kits with the polymer?
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Unfortunately, we don't have polymer guns with more than 2 magazines. There is a Milipol expo in two weeks and we hope to have a productive meeting on parts and mags with Russians...don't hold your breath though...

I would think it's a personal preference metal vs. polymer...

The polymer Viking is actually not the common polymer guns design with molded metal parts into plastic. Viking has a full metal frame less the magazine housing. The frame is removable from the plastic “wrap around” and grip. All parts are assembled on the metal frame. I will take a pictures of full disassembly and post it here either tonight or tomorrow as time permits.
 
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TeaPot2 said:
The polymer Viking is actually not the common polymer guns design with molded metal parts into plastic. Viking has a full metal frame less the magazine housing. The frame is removable from the plastic “wrap around” and grip. All parts are assembled on the metal frame. I will take a pictures of full disassembly and post it here either tonight or tomorrow as time permits.
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Interesting. Doesn't sound like there's the same dramatic difference in one's hand between the steel vs. polymer then? Would seem that there's still some weight there that's absent from more common polymer pistols?

Might come down to the age old argument on the longevity between polymer vs. steel...
 
TeaPot2 said:
True, it's very hard to get spare magazines out of Russia due to their firearms laws which are more insane than ours.



The price doesn't always reflect quality and reliability, the price for Vikings is set to get into the market.
Our Viking with 6 magazines package deals are the solution to getting extra mags for Viking out of Russia. As of now, the only way to get extra magazines is to order the pistols with as many magazines as we want. All 6 magazines are serial numbered to the gun and packed in the box together with the pistol. In this case Russian authorities and customs has no issues to let them out.

Spare parts is also a problem for exporting, however for the last three years we sold hundreds of Vikings and haven't had a single request for broken/malfunctioning parts. And yes, the warranty parts replacement is guaranteed.

As per handling +p+ ammunition, except for the shorter barrel life no problem at all. Here is the ammo I shoot ;)

Viking_.jpg
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How many rounds does that puppy have down the tube?
 
at the time the picture was taken it was only around 200 rounds through...I shoot one more of them, with the round count 4K+ and all the abuse the finish wear is quite noticeable on her.
 
TeaPot2 said:
at the time the picture was taken it was only around 200 rounds through...I shoot one more of them, with the round count 4K+ and all the abuse the finish wear is quite noticeable on her.
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Not to be a #### or anything, but that's not a lot. Granted most people probably wouldn't even put half that amount through the time they own a gun. But don't you think you need more rounds down the tube before you can make accurate statements about its reliability and durability?
 
Even Glock says +p+ rounds aren't recommended for constant use in their pistols, and that some parts (like the recoil spring) should be replaced and monitored more frequently.:nest:

Is there a double standard here? (Regarding Vikings +p+ durability):confused: Granted, the Vikings finish seems pretty low tech, but I've seem plenty of Russian/Soviet small arms devoid of finish chugging along just fine.....

Excellent debates/points here guys!:)
 
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zupermann said:
Even Glock says +p+ rounds aren't recommended for constant use in their pistols, and that some parts (like the recoil spring) should be replaced and monitored more frequently.:nest:

Is there a double standard here? (Regarding Vikings +p+ durability):confused: Granted, the Vikings finish seems pretty low tech, but I've seem plenty of Russian/Soviet small arms devoid of finish chugging along just fine.....

Excellent debates/points here guys!:)
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No I was hoping for a bigger data point to work off. I am curious how far she goes before trouble starts brewing in there. If someone out there has a 10k viking or something I would like to hear your thoughts on how it went, what, if anything went wrong.?
 
ztunelover said:
No I was hoping for a bigger data point to work off. I am curious how far she goes before trouble starts brewing in there. If someone out there has a 10k viking or something I would like to hear your thoughts on how it went, what, if anything went wrong.?
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My observations on the one with 4000+ rounds through…
The issues I found with Vikings:
1. the guns are sighted using Russian made ammo and at 25 meters tends to shoot lower than point of aim with 115 grain ammo, they are much better with 124gr, and dead center with 147grain.
2. dirty gun after 200+ rounds may occasionally fail to stop the slide open after the last round. Not a show stopper for me. Quick cleaning solves the problem, thankfully the field strip is very easy and no small parts.
3. with weak loads the slide may occasionally catch the empty case. This is due to heavy recoil spring made to military specs.
4. not an issue for me but some people complained that magazine spring is too heavy. It becomes better with use and we will get the speed loaders for Vikings within the coming shipment.

On the plus side:
the gun is ambidextrous, the trigger in SA is very good right out of the box, the DA is also not bad and very little polishing to the sear makes it much better, the trigger reset is very short and neat, sights are very good, the gun is balanced very well and sits in hand just right, recoil jump is minimal and gun is very quickly back on target for follow up shot, the slide release is long enough to easy operate with the strong hand thumb without changing the grip.
 
TeaPot2 said:
My observations on the one with 4000+ rounds through…
The issues I found with Vikings:
1. the guns are sighted using Russian made ammo and at 25 meters tends to shoot lower than point of aim with 115 grain ammo, they are much better with 124gr, and dead center with 147grain.
2. dirty gun after 200+ rounds may occasionally fail to stop the slide open after the last round. Not a show stopper for me. Quick cleaning solves the problem, thankfully the field strip is very easy and no small parts.
3. with weak loads the slide may occasionally catch the empty case. This is due to heavy recoil spring made to military specs.
4. not an issue for me but some people complained that magazine spring is too heavy. It becomes better with use and we will get the speed loaders for Vikings within the coming shipment.

On the plus side:
the gun is ambidextrous, the trigger in SA is very good right out of the box, the DA is also not bad and very little polishing to the sear makes it much better, the trigger reset is very short and neat, sights are very good, the gun is balanced very well and sits in hand just right, recoil jump is minimal and gun is very quickly back on target for follow up shot, the slide release is long enough to easy operate with the strong hand thumb without changing the grip.
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Do maglulas not work with viking mags?

And by weak loads do you mean reloads or factory ammo? Because if it is reloads that to me is a non issue since I only run factory ammo.
 
zupermann said:
Even Glock says +p+ rounds aren't recommended for constant use in their pistols, and that some parts (like the recoil spring) should be replaced and monitored more frequently.:nest:

Is there a double standard here? (Regarding Vikings +p+ durability):confused: Granted, the Vikings finish seems pretty low tech, but I've seem plenty of Russian/Soviet small arms devoid of finish chugging along just fine.....

Excellent debates/points here guys!:)
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There is no need for +p+ ammo, its a marketing gimmick. For use in a sub gun it has merit, as its an attempt to squeeze better performance from an anemic cartridge in a shoulder controlled platform. Recoil spring replacement is normal for all autos, naturally if you run it hard with heavy recoiling ammo you'll need to replace them more frequently.

TeaPot2 said:
My observations on the one with 4000+ rounds through…
The issues I found with Vikings:
1. the guns are sighted using Russian made ammo and at 25 meters tends to shoot lower than point of aim with 115 grain ammo, they are much better with 124gr, and dead center with 147grain.
2. dirty gun after 200+ rounds may occasionally fail to stop the slide open after the last round. Not a show stopper for me. Quick cleaning solves the problem, thankfully the field strip is very easy and no small parts.
3. with weak loads the slide may occasionally catch the empty case. This is due to heavy recoil spring made to military specs.
4. not an issue for me but some people complained that magazine spring is too heavy. It becomes better with use and we will get the speed loaders for Vikings within the coming shipment.

On the plus side:
the gun is ambidextrous, the trigger in SA is very good right out of the box, the DA is also not bad and very little polishing to the sear makes it much better, the trigger reset is very short and neat, sights are very good, the gun is balanced very well and sits in hand just right, recoil jump is minimal and gun is very quickly back on target for follow up shot, the slide release is long enough to easy operate with the strong hand thumb without changing the grip.
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So you're saying for a "modern" pistol that failures at a mere 200 rounds is acceptable? That's atrocious, and completely unacceptable. I would expect a wheel gun to eat 200 rounds before choking, but an auto, at least 10 times that. As for the DA, you've illustrated exactly what is wrong with DA/SA guns and why the Viking is sub standard even compared to other DA/SA guns. DA trigger pulls suck, and it appears it sucks even more on a Viking. Can't say I'm surprised, but I have to ask where the "value" is in buying this $500 gun only to struggle to make hits due to poor design, and premature failures when it gets the least bit dirty?

TDC
 
TeaPot2 said:
As per handling +p+ ammunition, except for the shorter barrel life no problem at all. Here is the ammo I shoot ;)
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What's the benefit to shooting more expensive +p+ ammunition at paper targets? I have no experience with +p+, so am I missing something here?
 
So you're saying for a "modern" pistol that failures at a mere 200 rounds is acceptable? That's atrocious, and completely unacceptable. I would expect a wheel gun to eat 200 rounds before choking, but an auto, at least 10 times that. As for the DA, you've illustrated exactly what is wrong with DA/SA guns and why the Viking is sub standard even compared to other DA/SA guns. DA trigger pulls suck, and it appears it sucks even more on a Viking. Can't say I'm surprised, but I have to ask where the "value" is in buying this $500 gun only to struggle to make hits due to poor design, and premature failures when it gets the least bit dirty?

TDC
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LOL you got it all wrong :)

What I meant by little polishing is if you want to have it competition style trigger. Out of the box it's a military sturdy pistol, yet SA is much better than some sport models...

A premature failure? I can throw Viking in a sand and mud, pick it up and it will keep shooting. I can deep it in a freezing water and it will keep shooting. I can run it over with truck and it will keep shooting. I can run 8 boxes of ammo to get it very hot and it will keep shooting. occasionally not stopping the slide open after 8 boxes of ammo through with two short brakes for six mags reload not big deal to me I can rack the slide and keep shooting. and by the way commercial American Eagle ammo I use leaves plenty of dirt inside the guns.

If you are in Edmonton area let's go to the range, I will be happy to let you try her :)
 
TeaPot2 said:
LOL you got it all wrong :)

What I meant by little polishing is if you want to have it competition style trigger. Out of the box it's a military sturdy pistol, yet SA is much better than some sport models...

A premature failure? I can throw Viking in a sand and mud, pick it up and it will keep shooting. I can deep it in a freezing water and it will keep shooting. I can run it over with truck and it will keep shooting. I can run 8 boxes of ammo to get it very hot and it will keep shooting. occasionally not stopping the slide open after 8 boxes of ammo through with two short brakes for six mags reload not big deal to me I can rack the slide and keep shooting. and by the way commercial American Eagle ammo I use leaves plenty of dirt inside the guns.

If you are in Edmonton area let's go to the range, I will be happy to let you try her :)
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You still haven't made the case for the Viking. Its overweight, is an inferior da/sa design, is unsupported in this country and has failures after 200 rounds. The abusive situations you describe are nothing new for other known brands like Glock and HK. So where's the value?

As for trying your gun, no thanks. I have no use for an unsupported overweight da/sa pistol of zero pedigree.

Tdc
 
TDC said:
You still haven't made the case for the Viking. Its overweight, is an inferior da/sa design, is unsupported in this country and has failures after 200 rounds. The abusive situations you describe are nothing new for other known brands like Glock and HK. So where's the value?

As for trying your gun, no thanks. I have no use for an unsupported overweight da/sa pistol of zero pedigree.

Tdc
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So....Let me get this right. You say it's overweight, an inferior design, etc., all based on not even trying it out.?? Yikes!

Zero pedigree? You are very misinformed.. Russian army trials were very thorough, the design being based on the "grach" and other prototypes.

I haven't had a single malfunction with mine--although I do have to admit my round count is nowhere near the 4k mark....
 
zupermann said:
So....Let me get this right. You say it's overweight, an inferior design, etc., all based on not even trying it out.?? Yikes!

Zero pedigree? You are very misinformed.. Russian army trials were very thorough, the design being based on the "grach" and other prototypes.

I haven't had a single malfunction with mine--although I do have to admit my round count is nowhere near the 4k mark....
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The weight is high for a polymer gun and obscene for a steel framed gun. Da/sa is an inferior design. tell me what part of the above factual data requires ones experience to validate? I've shot plenty of da/sa guns and they're inferior to consistant dao or even sa guns.

The Russian military adopting a Russian pistol has more to do with blind patriotism and control of supply then it does in validating a design. The Russians struggle with handgun design and this is no exception.

Tdc
 
zupermann said:
So....Let me get this right. You say it's overweight, an inferior design, etc., all based on not even trying it out.?? Yikes!

Zero pedigree? You are very misinformed.. Russian army trials were very thorough, the design being based on the "grach" and other prototypes.

I haven't had a single malfunction with mine--although I do have to admit my round count is nowhere near the 4k mark....
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Sooner you learn to let him ramble on better you are, he takes Mr Negative to another level.
Everyone has different taste
 
TDC said:
Taste has nothing to do with the facts. Some say I'm negative, the more informed understand that I'm both logical and honest.

Tdc
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Sorry, just couldn't resist...you haven't tried the (put anything here) but according to you it's crap because you think you are logical and only your opinion is the right one :) unless you tried it your opinion does not count.
The more informed people curious why you have decided it's unsupported. We provide warranty replacements, we offer accessories, we offer 3 different versions and 5 packages, we promote the Viking at the gun shows and shooting ranges, I also offered you the try out...

Unless you with your favorite pistol and me with Viking meet at the range and shoot them until one of them malfunctions I see no point arguing here.
 
TeaPot2 said:
Sorry, just couldn't resist...you haven't tried the (put anything here) but according to you it's crap because you think you are logical and only your opinion is the right one :) unless you tried it your opinion does not count.
The more informed people curious why you have decided it's unsupported. We provide warranty replacements, we offer accessories, we offer 3 different versions and 5 packages, we promote the Viking at the gun shows and shooting ranges, I also offered you the try out...

Unless you with your favorite pistol and me with Viking meet at the range and shoot them until one of them malfunctions I see no point arguing here.
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Lol u sir are my hero, i say shyt very blunt
 
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