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luke s

luke s

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So I picked up a sub 2000 finally. Was very happy with up to the mid 200 round point or so.

I had some rounds not ejecting properly and getting stuck between the bolt and side of the ejection port. Cleared them no problem and had a look at the really mangled brass, but thought nothing of it. After a while I looked at the ejection port side of the plastic receiver in more detail.....
Ejection-port%20sm.jpg


And then I notice this.......
receiver-crack1-sm.jpg


My 1st theory is that the force of the bolt, hitting brass against the front of the ejection port (I will take a pic of the brass in a bit) caused the plastic frame to crack.

My 2nd theory is that I somehow had a round go off slightly out of battery leading to the crack and a squib stuck about 17 inches into the barrel (17" from chamber)

I am surprised and extremely impressed that the barrel didnt blow up..... I am fine, just gonna hurt the wallet a bit.

P.S.
Ammo used was: (from Lyman 49th edition)
1st box shot - 100 reloads titegroup 2.8gr, 147 grain AIM plated (max load, worked fine)
2nd box - 100 reloads bullseye, ~3.9gr, 125 gr DRG lead (between main and max, worked fine)
100 reloads unique, 4.5gr, 124 gr FMJ, (max load) <-- failure somewhere during the middle of using this box

All reloaded on a single stage press, measured powder amount frequently, powder levels visually inspected in the tray before seating bullets

Theory 3 is bad reload, but given the way they were reloaded and inspected, this seems unlikely
 
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You are QUITE fortunate that it didn't go boom in your face. My guess, and no offence to your reloading skills, as I have made my own mistakes in that field, it is the stuck rounds that caused the pressure to build up. The frame took it, because the barrel withstood and INCREDIBLE amount of back pressure from the repeated shots.

I think that, seeing as the pressure had to go somewhere, it structurally took it in the bolt, and receiver crack you now see.

Maybe you can get a discounted one from Kel Tec if you send yours in as an example of strength, along with the X rays of course...

EDIT: If it took at least 3 stuck rounds without doing more than cracking and destroying the firearm, it did what it was supposed to do safety wise. Pics of the brass maybe would help ascertain. Honestly, can't see it being anything other than the ammo. There HAS to be a reason they got stuck. Diameter issues. Were they cast boolits? Resized? Too heavy of a crimp on brass? Cleaning problems? Lube problems? So many issues, but unless you got a lemon, something leads me in the direction of the ammo.

I've seen glocks and S&W's blow up from too much pressure. This seems to be no different.

EDIT EDIT: See that it was FMJ's. Any way you can get those bullets out and measure dia.? Prob. not but an idea anyway. I would contact Kel Tec, and see what they are willing to do as far as helping you. You may be SOL, but they may in the interest of good relations take some money off. Also, the barrel looks bent, or is that just me? I may also contact the bullet manufacturer. The projectiles may be off as far as diameter. Why couldn't it happen?
 
I don't think I am going to say fail on the sub's part. That thing took a serious amount of pressure without spontaneous disassembly resulting in a forcible polymer facial.

I'm sorry for the loss of your sub, and I'm glad to see no-one was seriously injured.
 
na1lb0hm said:
I don't think I am going to say fail on the sub's part. That thing took a serious amount of pressure without spontaneous disassembly resulting in a forcible polymer facial.

I'm sorry for the loss of your sub, and I'm glad to see no-one was seriously injured.
Click to expand...

Yep, that fail was the operator not the rifle.

TDC
 
Epic fail? Maybe on behalf of the OP, EPIC WIN on the Keltec, you have no idea how lucky you are. 4x+ rounds fired into an obstructed barrel, amazing it didn't blow apart.
 
Shows that these as some call "Cheap and flimsy" guns are stronger than we
thought!.

I have great confidence in mine,especially after this report.
 
I take full responsibility for the rounds stuck after the 1st one. Hell even the 1st one can be my fault, operator error for sure, not trying to deny it, but I still want to figure out what went wrong with the 1st shot that got stuck.

I 100% applaud the sub 2000 for not blowing up, I would not hesitate to buy another one (and I will if I cant get it repaired)

the bolt, carrier, extractor/ejector and trigger mechanism are all fine. I removed the cracked part of the receiver and getting a replacement should be pretty cheap or even free if I can sweet talk kel tec. The custom Canadian barrel is gonna be the biggest problem I think.
 
connexion123 said:
EDIT: Honestly, can't see it being anything other than the ammo. There HAS to be a reason they got stuck. Diameter issues. Were they cast boolits? Resized? Too heavy of a crimp on brass? Cleaning problems? Lube problems? So many issues, but unless you got a lemon, something leads me in the direction of the ammo.

I've seen glocks and S&W's blow up from too much pressure. This seems to be no different.

EDIT EDIT: See that it was FMJ's. Any way you can get those bullets out and measure dia.? Prob. not but an idea anyway. I would contact Kel Tec, and see what they are willing to do as far as helping you. You may be SOL, but they may in the interest of good relations take some money off. Also, the barrel looks bent, or is that just me? I may also contact the bullet manufacturer. The projectiles may be off as far as diameter. Why couldn't it happen?
Click to expand...

-it happened on the FMJ batch. the lead and plated rounds were fine. Since Unique is a flake powder that is hard to meter, I am pretty sure I measured most if not all of those loads on a scale (the titegroup and bullseye were measured every 5th or 10th). This is why my thought is this is not a low charge of powder.

-I dont crimp my 9mm ammo, just run it thought the lee sizing die after seating the bullet.
-Rifle was new and cleaned/lubed before heading to range and only had the 200-300 shots fired prior.
-Barrel is bent where it gets thinner, but you can feel bulges all along it.
-I will be contacting kel tec to see what they can do, maybe they will have pity on me haha. At least I am sure they will be pretty impressed that it didnt blow up.

As pissed as I am at myself for letting it happen, I am glad that I am ok and as much as it sucks, its only money that was lost.
 
na1lb0hm said:
I don't think I am going to say fail on the sub's part. That thing took a serious amount of pressure without spontaneous disassembly resulting in a forcible polymer facial.

I'm sorry for the loss of your sub, and I'm glad to see no-one was seriously injured.
Click to expand...

...resulting in a forcible polymer facial.

ABSOLUTELY FUGGIN' EPIC POST.
 
Back in nam we used to try and shoot into charlie's barrels so as to set off their entire magazine, if done properly you could tango down an entire group of them
 
Impressive performance by the Sub 2000!

What were you shooting at? Did you notice anything different?

I've never had a squib but I've had a few weird sounding shots that made me look down the barrel.....I can't believe the report didn't change!
 
st box shot - 100 reloads titegroup 2.8gr, 147 grain AIM plated (max load, worked fine)
Click to expand...

Do I read this correctly? 2.8gr of Titegroup for a 147gr bullet is WAY below minimum load. Is it possible that your charge wasn't strong enough to propel the bullet out of the barrel?
 
It didn't blow up because it's blowback operated.

When a round jammed in the barrel, the pressure from the next round built until it simply pushed the brass out of the chamber, dumping the pressure out the ejection port.

Compared that to a bolt action, locking semi-auto, revolver, etc. The brass is stuck in the chamber and the gas has no where to go so the pressure sky rockets.
 
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