Hi, I'm in Ontario unfortunately (in many ways) your in Vancouver right?
Subsonic .223 with Titegroup
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Hi, I'm in Ontario unfortunately (in many ways) your in Vancouver right?
LOL, spending a lot more to make way bigger groups is enjoyable?
I'm pretty sure that target shooting doesn't involve making your groups worse.
Close enough.
I stumbled onto the video below while surfing Utube for sub-sonic 223. It's 308 caliber, but, for me, it is absolutely fascinating. See what you think. (The BCL TRX Howitzer 9.5" is available in 308 caliber. With this novelty load option, I'm actually considering it. Talk about a range of possibilities for a single caliber.
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)I shoot subsonics using 8.0gr titegroup in my 308. 175gr Hordady Sub X.I stumbled onto the video below while surfing Utube for sub-sonic 223. It's 308 caliber, but, for me, it is absolutely fascinating. See what you think. (The BCL TRX Howitzer 9.5" is available in 308 caliber. With this novelty load option, I'm actually considering it. Talk about a range of possibilities for a single caliber.
I was playing with some yesterday as a matter of fact. This is a 10 shot group at 100. The bottom one was a sighter.
I'm not sure about the high one. I didn't dial it, I just used an estimated Holdover.
The SD for 20 shots was 35.1. Not so great but also not too bad for filling only 1/5th of the case.
I'm going to be working out a 300 BLK load with it soon, the CFE BLK has been a struggle so far.
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This is a Homemade Hammond Gamegetter.I stumbled onto the video below while surfing Utube for sub-sonic 223. It's 308 caliber, but, for me, it is absolutely fascinating. See what you think. (The BCL TRX Howitzer 9.5" is available in 308 caliber. With this novelty load option, I'm actually considering it. Talk about a range of possibilities for a single caliber.
I am going to go find mine and take a snap or two.
He used to advertise in all the Hunting and Trapping Synopsis.
It uses .22 nailer blanks and works pretty awesome.
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That's a neat design. I've watched a couple of Youtube videos made by onwers. But it's only one cartridge, right? It's a single-shot set-up. In other words, you're not going to buy a number of them to fill a magazine, right?
The nice thing about those small, light projectiles in that video is that you reload them just like you reload much larger projectiles and fill magazines with them, again, just like full-power, high-energy cartridges that take down game at long ranges.
In the comments section below the video (if you select "watch in Youtube"), there are some very interesting comments about using Lee bullet sizing dies to accomplish what the man in the video does with his thick steel swaging disks, but much faster, using 00 (53gr) or even 000 (60gr) shot, but I assume that using only the sizing die produces round nose projectiles (round at both ends like a medicine capsule) rather than flat, which would be just fine with me. (I'd like to know if single round he fired cycled the Norinco. I can't tell.)
If I was going to experiment with the 53 or 60gr projectiles to get the lowest velocity, quietest round possible (without having to buy a chronograph), I'd be lowering the powder charge down from 10gr until the first squib. Then I'd push the squib out with a dowel or brass rod and go with the next higher charge that consistently pushes the projectiles out the end of the barrel while producing the quietest report.
Speaking of squibs, I've never fired a gun and had a squib occur. Those of you who have had them occur, how difficult do you think it would be to push one of those short, 53gr projectiles out of a 9.5" barrel? Thanks.
When I first started playing around with subsonic loads for my .308 I used pistol powders and used cotton balls as a filler and ensure the powder stayed at the bottom of the casing and in contact with the primer. From my research using small amounts of powder in a relatively large case could result in a secondary explosion.
I bought some Trailboss which allowed me to fill the cases more. Unfortunately there is no more Trailboss to be found anywhere.
I have a 12.5 inch barrel 300 Blackout and I've had great success with H110 for subsonic and supersonic loads.
No experience with rifle caliber squibs, but we went through a bad batch of powder in our 45acp reloads and got a few squibs in our non-restricted Vectors (those were real popular on the line). Sometimes they were 4"-6" from the end of the barrel and it took a LOT of pounding to get them out. Our RO's were trained to notice the difference in sound, but even then we had one round fired after a squibbed round. Blew out the mag, damaged the receiver, ring'd the barrel, but thankfully nobody hurt. We quarantined that batch of reloads after that. Staff used it up on handguns where it worked ok, but not always fully cycling the slide.That's a neat design. I've watched a couple of Youtube videos made by onwers. But it's only one cartridge, right? It's a single-shot set-up. In other words, you're not going to buy a number of them to fill a magazine, right?
The nice thing about those small, light projectiles in that video is that you reload them just like you reload much larger projectiles and fill magazines with them, again, just like full-power, high-energy cartridges that take down game at long ranges.
In the comments section below the video (if you select "watch in Youtube"), there are some very interesting comments about using Lee bullet sizing dies to accomplish what the man in the video does with his thick steel swaging disks, but much faster, using 00 (53gr) or even 000 (60gr) shot, but I assume that using only the sizing die produces round nose projectiles (round at both ends like a medicine capsule) rather than flat, which would be just fine with me. (I'd like to know if single round he fired cycled the Norinco. I can't tell.)
If I was going to experiment with the 53 or 60gr projectiles to get the lowest velocity, quietest round possible (without having to buy a chronograph), I'd be lowering the powder charge down from 10gr until the first squib. Then I'd push the squib out with a dowel or brass rod and go with the next higher charge that consistently pushes the projectiles out the end of the barrel while producing the quietest report.
Speaking of squibs, I've never fired a gun and had a squib occur. Those of you who have had them occur, how difficult do you think it would be to push one of those short, 53gr projectiles out of a 9.5" barrel? Thanks.
Is there a powder that is more or less equivalent to Trailboss and is readily available today? Is "H110" essentially the same powder, more or less?
How serious an issue is it to place small volumetric amounts of, say, Titegroup in a 308 brass (in an attempt to produce light, low-velocity rounds), leaving lots of empty space in the brass?
Thanks.
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I just discovered something called a "gallery load". The following video of a British 303 gallery load describes them very well along with a shooting demo (looks to me like very little recoil together with a relatively quiet report compared those shooting in the background; a 308 gallery load might be very similar):
There is lots of info online on the subject, I use tinstar which is also unavailable but still leaves lots of empty space. I use magnum primers to get pressure up quicker since the empty space is soaking up the pressure. A filler will not help reduce the air volume although it will improve powder positioning. I never use a filler. I also don't believe in secondary explosion, I never saw an explanation from it by a believable source, but is true that people have double charged cases with pistol powder and obviously didnt know it before they fired it. They might have also blamed "flashover" because of powder position, I have heard of that too
Even if a small-volume of powder gets positioned more toward the bullet than the primer, at the moment of firing doesn't the primer fill the entire space of the brass with, for lack of a better word, "flame"? And wouldn't that flame cause enough of the powder charge to burn to at least push the bullet into the rifling and through the barrel (although some combustion of the powder normally continues to "follow" the bullet ...... sometimes some of it burning well beyond the muzzle of a short barrel, sometimes causing a very noticeable flash)?
I fully appreciate that double-charging (accidentally using twice as much powder than intended) would be an extremely dangerous mistake to make. I can easily imagine how that might accidentally happen when using small volumes or weights of powder because it's more difficult to see that there's a double charge present in the brass, even when looking down inside the brass using a flashlight. "Measure twice; cut once" doesn't adequately address the danger in this case (pun intended). If I have any doubt that a particular brass has gotten a double charge, I'll dump the case and re-measure the powder either by volume or weight.
Yes the case I assume would be filled with flame but the powder won't burn like it should until the pressure comes up. It needs to come up quicklyThats why you get hang fires from slower powders too much space in the case and magnum powders help too in that case. I've had unburnt powder all the way down the barrel if the bullet is moving along enough that the pressure curve never builds high enough for that powder to burn it won't burn properly even if it is subject to flame
I don't find much difference in powder position in my light loads, I believe that once the pressure is there, the heat is there, like a diesel engine, and the powder will all burn according to its rate regardless of where it is in the case. I have heard of flash over, where the flame front passes over powder sitting in the case, as if it's just going to sit there when the primer explodes, I doubt if there even is a flame front if the pressure gets up like it should to burn the powder efficiently, maybe black powder has a flame front, I don't know
I should have been more clear. H110 is not equivalent to Trailboss. I chose 300 Blackout as it has a smaller case volume than .308 and is more appropriate to be loaded at subsonic speeds.
As an example I use 18 grains of H110 with a 125 grain bullet for a supersonic load. My subsonic load is 8 grains of H110 with a 210 grain cast bullet. I set the bullet deeper which occupies some of the case volume.
I realize not everyone believes in secondary explosive effects but I'm not going to take a chance with this.
I found for when I chrono my revolver loads, the first shot was always significantly slower, so I ran a test with barrel tilted up before each shot, barrel leveled for each shot, and barrel tilted down before for each shot. Not really applicable to rifle rounds, as you don't tip the mag down during reloads lol. Still interesting that the large case volume of a 38sp made powder position a factor. Where I loaded to a lower COL to reduce the case volume, the affects of powder position is reduced.
Great data! I believe it proves your conclusions are correct, especially the effect of lowering C.O.L. in the "practice" test batch. Do you think that using Titegroup instead of Bullseye and WST would have narrowed the spreads in fps with the longer COLs?
This is good ammo for your indoor range. I assume your revolver's barrel length is relatively short compared to that of your rifle. How loud was the report from a 689 fps bullet when compared to that of a standard commercial load? (I remember that our 38+p Taurus with 2.5" barrel was extremely loud.)
Thanks.
