I was thinking about doing some subsonic 30-30 rounds. Probably just for targets and probably not that far away. Hodgdon has trail boss powder listed with a 160 grain cast bullet going about 1000 fps which is about right. Anyone know where to get some cheap cast bullets or do people just cast their own? I didn't see any on wholesale sports website. Any other suggestions on subsonic ammunition?
Subsonic 30-30 Winchester
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I cast my own bullets, and to go subsonic, yes, you better use lead. Jacketed might get stuck in the barrel. Buckshot might work. Be real carefull about going too slow or you might end up with a bullet stuck in the barrel not using enough powder.
Trail Boss is a good powder to use. Nice and bulky, and hard to put too much into a case. My Lyman 47th edition doesn't have Trail Boss data, but it has data for other mild loads for cast bullets. You don't need to go subsonic to have a light report from the barrel. A lot of my light loads are quieter than shooting a .22, are cheaper to shoot, and have way more energy than any .22 load.
I don't know of any place that sells 30 cal lead bullets (other than substituting buckshot). Most people get into casting and can customise their bullets to the task at hand. Pure lead for slower bullets, harder lead for faster target shooting, and special softnose/hardbody bullets for hunting.
You might have to invest in some bullets casting equipment to get your subsonic fix cured. Unless you can beg, buy, borrow, or steal some lead from another shooter...
Trail Boss is a good powder to use. Nice and bulky, and hard to put too much into a case. My Lyman 47th edition doesn't have Trail Boss data, but it has data for other mild loads for cast bullets. You don't need to go subsonic to have a light report from the barrel. A lot of my light loads are quieter than shooting a .22, are cheaper to shoot, and have way more energy than any .22 load.
I don't know of any place that sells 30 cal lead bullets (other than substituting buckshot). Most people get into casting and can customise their bullets to the task at hand. Pure lead for slower bullets, harder lead for faster target shooting, and special softnose/hardbody bullets for hunting.
You might have to invest in some bullets casting equipment to get your subsonic fix cured. Unless you can beg, buy, borrow, or steal some lead from another shooter...
Hmmmm. I was hoping I could just buy some cast bullets in case I lost interest in shooting cast. Now when you say buckshot what exactly do you mean? Melt it down or find one that fits the barrel? How much is it to get into bullet casting? Is a jacketed bullet just going to be a headache or would it be alright if I just wanted to try out subsonic. What calibre are you shooting Lionel?
Don't even think about casting yourself, as a try out. Buy some bullets, they will come all sized and lubed, ready to load. There are lots of places selling cast bullets.
There is a fellow in Sask. who used to be on CGN and he had a great reputation for his bullets. Some on this group are still in contact with him.
I too, can not understand why you mention "sub-sonic," when talking about light loads. The speed of sound has nothing to do with accuracy or the noise from your rifle. Less powder=less velocity=less noise. Peiod.
Also, there are many types of powder that are suitable for what you want to do, besides Trail Boss.
Not really worried about accuracy too much. Just sound. If the bullet is traveling slower than the speed of sound there won't be a sonic boom so there will be even less sound. I agree that less powder will equate to less sound, just trying to maximize the sound reduction. More of an experiment than anything. Trail boss is simply the only powder listed in hodgdons load data that is listed at 1000fps.
I've made lots of sub sonic rounds for the 30-30. I used a 165 gr cast bullet and Trailboss. TrailBoss makes developing sub sonic loads very easy, especially for cartridges like the 30-30. But I've also used it for making 300WSM subsonic rounds using a Lapua subsonic bullet.
1000fps or even a little lower is easy to achieve with the 30-30. You can work down from the Hodgdon data if you want, just make sure the bullets are reliably clearing the barrel.
When launched at such a lower velocity the cast bullet doesn't expand at all and penetrates quite well. I've used subsonic rounds to shoot grouse, just makes a hole in them. I'd use them on close range coyote and other varmits, too.
You can buy cast bullets from a number of sources. OMA, Bullet Barn, MT chambers, to name a few....
1000fps or even a little lower is easy to achieve with the 30-30. You can work down from the Hodgdon data if you want, just make sure the bullets are reliably clearing the barrel.
When launched at such a lower velocity the cast bullet doesn't expand at all and penetrates quite well. I've used subsonic rounds to shoot grouse, just makes a hole in them. I'd use them on close range coyote and other varmits, too.
You can buy cast bullets from a number of sources. OMA, Bullet Barn, MT chambers, to name a few....
I've made lots of sub sonic rounds for the 30-30. I used a 165 gr cast bullet and Trailboss. TrailBoss makes developing sub sonic loads very easy, especially for cartridges like the 30-30. But I've also used it for making 300WSM subsonic rounds using a Lapua subsonic bullet.
1000fps or even a little lower is easy to achieve with the 30-30. You can work down from the Hodgdon data if you want, just make sure the bullets are reliably clearing the barrel.
When launched at such a lower velocity the cast bullet doesn't expand at all and penetrates quite well. I've used subsonic rounds to shoot grouse, just makes a hole in them. I'd use them on close range coyote and other varmits, too.
You can buy cast bullets from a number of sources. OMA, Bullet Barn, MT chambers, to name a few....
Thanks for the info!
I use in all my 30 cal rifles # "00" buck shot for grouse hunting. "00" buck shot is slightly larger than .308" and has to be resized. Lee makes lead bullet sizer for .308" for approx $20. I use magnum primers and depends on rifle 5-7 gr of Clays powder. It makes less noise than 22, shot goes through without expansion and up to 30 yards is quite accurate.
I get around 950 fps. using the Lee 32 cal. .314 TL 90 gr. SWC sized to .311 in my Sav. pump 30-30 using 3.5 grs. Bullseye,I've shot a couple hundred of these over the summer. You can use the same load in 06 and .308 Win. 3.0 to 3.5 grs. seem to be the sweet spot,it's not a max load but accuracy seem to degrade and leading can become an issue if you go higher as well as velocity over 1K fps. I cast these bullets from pure lead.
The bullet works equally as well in the Mosin rifles using same load with the bullet shot as cast. In the 7.62 x 39 I use 2.7 to 3.0 grs. Bullseye. All velocities are sub-sonic in all the cartridge listed.
30 Yds. with the irons,shoots around 2" with a scoped 30-30 at 50 Yds.
The bullet works equally as well in the Mosin rifles using same load with the bullet shot as cast. In the 7.62 x 39 I use 2.7 to 3.0 grs. Bullseye. All velocities are sub-sonic in all the cartridge listed.
30 Yds. with the irons,shoots around 2" with a scoped 30-30 at 50 Yds.
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You asked about why to use lead instead of jacketed. It's because lead is softer than the jacketed bullets. Even when it is cast hard (lead is usually alloyed=mixed with other metals) it is easier to push out of a barell with less chance of it sticking, like a jacketed might do. Also why you can get away with using a little bit larger diameter bullet. it'll help seal the bore and prevent blowby and leading of your barrel. A lubed bullet at slow speed shouldn't leave any traces behind. Very high speed (2000 fps or thereabouts) or a rough bore will give you grief with leading.
Either 00 buck, or 000 buck is the right size. I don't have the specs in front of me, but one of them is about .38 cal and the other is about .30 cal.
Getting them to go subsonic will be tougher than using a heavier bullet: not enough weight for the resistance to slow them down. I know I tried a .30 cal round ball, and it went pretty fast (didn't chronograph 'em: not accurate)
I guess I could throw the offer out there for some lead bullets as well. I cast several different weights, round ball, 113 gr lee "soupcan", 173 gr flatnose, and 180 and 200 gr round nose.
pm me and I can throw together a care package.
Either 00 buck, or 000 buck is the right size. I don't have the specs in front of me, but one of them is about .38 cal and the other is about .30 cal.
Getting them to go subsonic will be tougher than using a heavier bullet: not enough weight for the resistance to slow them down. I know I tried a .30 cal round ball, and it went pretty fast (didn't chronograph 'em: not accurate)
I guess I could throw the offer out there for some lead bullets as well. I cast several different weights, round ball, 113 gr lee "soupcan", 173 gr flatnose, and 180 and 200 gr round nose.
pm me and I can throw together a care package.
DRG makes a 30 cal lead bullet and comes in boxes of 250 or something like that. Elwood Epps carries them. I've used it to load 308 and 30-30 sub loads, as well as take grouse with the load. I've used Blue Dot in the past, but I've heard that one must be careful with Blue or Red dot loads for SEE. Trailboss in the 8 to 10 gr weight should work well.
Thanks for all the good information guys! I imagine I could probably shoot some steel targets without blowing a hole through with these loads as well. I read somewhere that you should use magnum primers. Any truth to that? I will probably use the trail boss powder.
No problem using Mag. primer if you so desire to get a more reliable ignition,but I haven't found them necessary using the fast burning bulky powders like Bullseye,Red Dot,2400 etc. which ignite very easily even at very low density rates. I've used both Mag and standard primers with the same load data and basically all I got was a slightly higher MV with the Mag. primer but it wasn't much,loads still didn't go past sub-sonic. If the date you use list Mag. primers then by all mean use them.
Added:I use no fillers of any kind with any of my cast bullet loads. None of the powders I use are case capacity or position sensitive as long as the prescribed data is used.
Added:I use no fillers of any kind with any of my cast bullet loads. None of the powders I use are case capacity or position sensitive as long as the prescribed data is used.
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I've never seen any need for magnum primers on reduced loads. I use around 5 gr. of Universal in my 30-30 plinkers and standard primers have set them off very reliably. I don't use any filler, and these aren't position sensitive either. A word of caution on using fast pistol-type powders in reduced rifle loads: BE VERY CAREFUL not to double charge. 5 grains of powder in a 30-30 case is almost impossible to see. For my own peace of mind I never use a block for this kind of loading. Tap upside down on the bench, pour in my charge, and seat a bullet. No chance then of going back and adding more. . .
Trailboss is just about perfect for subsonic 30-30 loads. Case fill is better than with the *.dot powders or Unique. Just make sure you don't compress Trailboss, it can spike severely if it gets compressed.
I cast a 247 gr .311 bullet that was designed for subsonic shooting in the 300 Whisper cartridge.
In the 30-30, 10 gr of Trailboss is about 90% case fill and gives 1025 fps in a 20" barrel using the 247 gr bullet. That's just about perfect.
Quickload estimates that all the powder is burned within the first 10", which I can't prove but it is very quiet.
I cast a 247 gr .311 bullet that was designed for subsonic shooting in the 300 Whisper cartridge.
In the 30-30, 10 gr of Trailboss is about 90% case fill and gives 1025 fps in a 20" barrel using the 247 gr bullet. That's just about perfect.
Quickload estimates that all the powder is burned within the first 10", which I can't prove but it is very quiet.
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A grouse load might be your ticket. Guns and Ammo/ Peterson Hunting had a few loads in many past magazines.
