Substituting bismuth for lead.

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antiqueguy

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Is their any reason you can drop the same weight of bismuth in a lead load. I’m looking into possibly hunting waterfowl this year and well don’t wanna put steel through my old shotgun.

There just seem to not be a lot of data for some hulls with bismuth and what’s available for primers and powder.
 
Bismuth is not as dense as lead, closer to steel. So the shot volume increases relative to lead. Wads and hulls have to be chosen accordingly. The Hodgdon website is a good source of info.
 
cosmic said:
Bismuth is not as dense as lead, closer to steel. So the shot volume increases relative to lead. Wads and hulls have to be chosen accordingly. The Hodgdon website is a good source of info.
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Not much in the way of bismuth unfortunately. Either powder or primers are not available for some loads. With cheddite primers basically being the only option these days leaves out a lot of hull options.
 
I've done it, but it is a bit of a challenge how to get the fit correct while not changing the load ballistically. Bismuth is less dense and requires more volume for the same weight shot charge. My approach was to take a proven and published lead shot load with somewhat lower than max pressure data and that uses all the commonly available hull/wad/primer/powder that you have available. If the wad manufacturer has two otherwise identical wads that vary only in cushion height and shot cup, the wads may be substituted with no other changes except bismuth shot in the same weight but greater volume.
For example, comparing Winchester data for lead 12 ga. loads : first choose a 1-1/8 oz lead load that meets the above suggestions. If comparing two Winchester AA wads, the yellow one for 1-1/4 oz lead and the white one for 1-1/8 oz lead, I'd use the yellow wad made for the heavier 1-1/4 oz payload but change nothing else when loading the less dense bismuth shot 1-1/8 oz load. You may need to use an adjustable shot bar in a MEC loader or ream out a shot bushing in other loaders to get the correct 1-1/8 oz. weight of bismuth. Small adjustments to column fit can be made by wad pressure or by adding a cheerio to the shot cup if necessary.
Or you can just take the quick shortcut of loading with a standard lead shot bushing and lead shot data but accepting you'll actually be shooting a lighter amount of Bismuth, that should be safe. However velocity and pressure will be less and powder burn may be erratic / incomplete with some powders.
 
Cheaper to go to the Chinese duck store for ducks than buying Bismuth, I was gifted a bunch of old shotgun components last winter ( the dude passed on over 15 yrs ago so dont know when purchased) and in the box was an unopened can of Bismuth BB sized shot...price on the 7 lb can is $92.
 
Ive got a BPI bismuth book, if you tell me what Hulls, wad and gauge i can look if i have anyload data,
That said, ive loaded bismuth straight across, with lead loads, its not quite right, but as long as you aren’t running hot, you should be ok. Biggest problem, as others have eluded too, is slight weight difference by volume, and thus fitting everything in.
 
fingers284 said:
Cheaper to go to the Chinese duck store for ducks than buying Bismuth, I was gifted a bunch of old shotgun components last winter ( the dude passed on over 15 yrs ago so dont know when purchased) and in the box was an unopened can of Bismuth BB sized shot...price on the 7 lb can is $92.
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It is what it is. cheapest bismuth shot currently is $170 plus shipping and taxes for 7lbs. If I could walk into a gunshop and buy 12ga 2 3/4 #4’s I would but most don’t carry it.
 
southernman said:
Ive got a BPI bismuth book, if you tell me what Hulls, wad and gauge i can look if i have anyload data,
That said, ive loaded bismuth straight across, with lead loads, it’s not quite right, but as long as you aren’t running hot, you should be ok. Biggest problem, as others have eluded too, is slight weight difference by volume, and thus fitting everything in.
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Hulls I have just about everything and the kitchen sink from original AA’s to IVI imperial. I need to go grab a bucket worth my buddy has for me I imagine it’s full of challanger and Winchester HS types.
 
Bismuth shot is about 80-85 % as dense as lead. Or, roughly mid way between lead and steel. Been a while since I loaded any but, used load data provided by Ballistics Products. Shot was purchased from Wil Bilozir. I was loading #1 Bismuth, at the time....as couldn't get a supply of BB. But performed very well on Canada geese. This, in 2 3/4" Federal Gold Medal hulls. I expect your BB will do so, also.
 
Alex McKr said:
Bismuth shot is about 80-85 % as dense as lead. Or, roughly mid way between lead and steel. Been a while since I loaded any but, used load data provided by Ballistics Products. Shot was purchased from Wil Bilozir. I was loading #1 Bismuth, at the time....as couldn't get a supply of BB. But performed very well on Canada geese. This, in 2 3/4" Federal Gold Medal hulls. I expect your BB will do so, also.
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Been told number 4’s is a good stand by for close range goose and just fine on ducks. I’d rather not use up my gold medals for bismuth though.
 
So get some wads suitable for whatever 2 3/4 hulls you have, with 1 1/4 or more payload capacity with lead. Fill to suit with bismuth, weigh the shot charge. Search out a suitable recipe (eg Hodgdon reloading website), and go to it. Give yourself a bit of margin on charge pressure, eg 10K psi....
 
Antique guy:
#4 should work fine, also. Have not tried either #4 or #5 on ducks or geese, but have on wild turkey. Terminal performance was good, as expected. Don't have load data or figures in front of me but, l used a 1 5/8 oz load. Essentially the same one I use with lead shot, with no noticeable difference in pattern. It bears mentioning that I used Ballistics Products wads for both lead/bismuth loads. Powder used was 4756, for both shot types. Shotgun was a century old Flues-model Ithaca double.
 
Yeah it’s looking like only options will be cheddite hulls and Winchester red wads(claybuster replacements not using up my originals).
I know not necessarily a good option as they’re more for tapered wads but it’s what’s available.

1 1/4oz cheddite hull cheddite primer longshot and the waa12r. Kinda wish I could get away with a lighter load and probably could in the creeks around here.
Gonna be a mixed lot of Color’s but eh.

Definitely wish I could find a field spot but getting permission anywhere in Essex is a pain in the backside. First time ever trying for waterfowl at all wasn’t really an option even this bag of shot is still worth more then the gun I’m using it in.
 
Antique guy: I like Longshot for 1 1/4-oz and upward loads. My preferred powder, in some cases. Works fairly well with 1 1/8-oz payloads...so no reason why you couldn't use them. Though there are other powders better suited. Really shines with 1 5/8-oz.
Should also work well for Bismuth. Have not used it in in this application but, might be worth a future trial.
Your Claybuster wads should work okay. Have used plenty of tapered wads in straight-walled hulls over the years with no issue, aside from the odd powder granule migrating up the wad. You'd likely see the same thing happen with AA wads, too. With current component shortages being what they are, a shooter has to get pretty creative, at times. Frankly, I don't see this changing anytime soon.
I feel your pain. Getting harder to find anywhere to shoot, these days.
 
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Alex McKr said:
Antique guy: I like Longshot for 1 1/4-oz and upward loads. My preferred powder, in some cases. Works fairly well with 1 1/8-oz payloads...so no reason why you couldn't use them. Though there are other powders better suited. Really shines with 1 5/8-oz.
Should also work well for Bismuth. Have not used it in in this application but, might be worth a future trial.
Your Claybuster wads should work okay. Have used plenty of tapered wads in straight-walled hulls over the years with no issue, aside from the odd powder granule migrating up the wad. You'd likely see the same thing happen with AA wads, too. With current component shortages being what they are, a shooter has to get pretty creative, at times. Frankly, I don't see this changing anytime soon.
I feel your pain. Getting harder to find anywhere to shoot, these days.
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1x1 square of paper towel cupped around the gas seal takes care of the powder migration. The Winchester red wad from what I was told was for the older paper hulls.
I don’t see an issue with using it my gun was made in 1957 ish was made for fiber wads patterns plastic wad loads very tightly dinner plate patterns at 25 yards with very few flyers with the choke set to full.
Matter of fact it’s a little too tight for small game 1 1/8oz of number 4 put way too many pellets in a squirrel at about 30 yards I may have had the choke at full not thinking.
 
What I’ve done is a very simple substitution. My 1-/18oz trap/skeet 3 dram equivalent load is used. Instead of a lead payload I end up with a volumetric equivalent bismuth load in the same shotcup. Yes it’s a tad lighter, velocity is similar, 1220 ft/sec and no pressure issues. I use the same system for 28g loads. Ducks over decoys on a pond at 35 yards die, even with the small 28g. As for geese, well it’s a whole different ball game. Good luck.
 
antiqueguy said:
1x1 square of paper towel cupped around the gas seal takes care of the powder migration. The Winchester red wad from what I was told was for the older paper hulls.
I don’t see an issue with using it my gun was made in 1957 ish was made for fiber wads patterns plastic wad loads very tightly dinner plate patterns at 25 yards with very few flyers with the choke set to full.
Matter of fact it’s a little too tight for small game 1 1/8oz of number 4 put way too many pellets in a squirrel at about 30 yards I may have had the choke at full not thinking.
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A cheaper suggestion.
1957?
Forget the bismuth.
Go to a competent gunsmith of which there are many on this forum
Get the chokes honed out to open cylinder to shoot steel. And don't shoot anything past BB or T.
I did that on an Ithaca 100 sxs.
But make sure your gunsmith is competent.
15 years, and not a problem.
 
bluelynx said:
A cheaper suggestion.
1957?
Forget the bismuth.
Go to a competent gunsmith of which there are many on this forum
Get the chokes honed out to open cylinder to shoot steel. And don't shoot anything past BB or T.
I did that on an Ithaca 100 sxs.
But make sure your gunsmith is competent.
15 years, and not a problem.
Click to expand...
It’s an adjustable choke don’t wanna screw it up since it patterns so well. Have been temped but the thought of wrecking it forever puts a stop to it. I have a box of the original federal black cloud 2 3/4 inch and bought it to put it to the patterning board but never did. Lately Remington has been temping in steel because their shells are lower velocity. I know all the testing and have tested it myself that steel shot is more like iron by giving it the wack test it’s almost like hitting a hot piece of steel.
 
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