sucks 9mm isn't a big game caliber...

Arden's experiences and observations are interesting. one of the reasons I started this thread with such an inflammatory title was because of how similar, or better than, a 9mm is vs some of the older cartridges, including muzzle loaders, used for hunting in the past.

I totally agree with hunting humanely, but some still hunt with these ancient cartridges but poo-poo the 9mm or similar.
 
A 9mm 125gr bullet st 1100 fps is going to be as potent or more so than a 45 cal muzzle loader using round ball.

So imo the 9mm is as a viable deer gun if the hunter is proficient, and range limitations are understood.
 
jethunter said:
A 9mm 125gr bullet st 1100 fps is going to be as potent or more so than a 45 cal muzzle loader using round ball.

So imo the 9mm is as a viable deer gun if the hunter is proficient, and range limitations are understood.
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sure is interesting the bias though...it's a pistol cartridge, gots to be crap and unworthy. however, when looked upon without bias, it's better than what a lot of people like to use today, isn't as good as most, so it has to be used within it's limits.

are there any reports out there on super hot loaded 9mm+ and +P out of a longer barrel...around 16" or so?
 
I find it interesting that nowadays a 6.5 CM@500yds is reasonable elk medicine, but when 9mm comes up the discussion often goes to close in bear stopping power. It’s like the BC grizzly prohibition means the bears cease to exist.

Then the “if it’s too powerful you can’t shoot it well” argument starts up. And usually one or two particular members chime it to attack anyone who has a different point of view. This discussion is like a political party platform; ethics depend on what’s popular at the moment. Recurve archers are pure individuals, but someone using a 9mm is a mall ninja wannabe. Neither point of view on either extreme is “correct”, but there is a lot more sound middle ground than internet chats would lead a person to believe.
 
emerson said:
I find it interesting that nowadays a 6.5 CM@500yds is reasonable elk medicine, but when 9mm comes up the discussion often goes to close in bear stopping power. It’s like the BC grizzly prohibition means the bears cease to exist.

Then the “if it’s too powerful you can’t shoot it well” argument starts up. And usually one or two particular members chime it to attack anyone who has a different point of view. This discussion is like a political party platform; ethics depend on what’s popular at the moment. Recurve archers are pure individuals, but someone using a 9mm is a mall ninja wannabe. Neither point of view on either extreme is “correct”, but there is a lot more sound middle ground than internet chats would lead a person to believe.
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indeed...the answer is always in the middle of the two extremes. ;)
 
I still can't see the hunting niche for a 7lb 9mm.

The 22LR outclasses it for gophers.
The 12 gauge outclasses it for hosing down coyotes at close range.
The SKS outclasses it for a cheap semi auto plinker.
A sporter Lee Enfield outclasses it for a detachable magazine truck/quad gun.
A Win 94 outclasses it for a carrying rifle.

And on and on.

I think it's niche is as a plinker.
 
you can't see the hunting niche for 9mm? did you read the first page?

I know nothing of shooting a muzzle loader, but what is their range and accuracy?

and what other semi-auto NR carbines are there in pistol calibers, besides the well known Hi-Point?
 
I've had 2 Destroyer Carbines in 9mm Largo and have shot and handled the Ruger PCC, Beretta Storm, and the CAR 15. The Storm is nearly unusable for me as my face is too wide. The takedown is neat on the Ruger. As stated , Keltec Sub 2000 is the most appealing to me. A chubby 7lb 9mm is a bad joke.

My Destroyer load was a 147gr hollowpoint with AA#7 at 1344fps according to my logbook. I sent one of them to a fellow on the QCI, he used it for racoons, he never mentioned deer.

I find these small cartridges a PITA to reload in quantity. I think their niche is shooting tin cans and milk jugs with the kids.

For hunting small deer I would rather have an SKS, or a Win 94 or 92, a Marlin 94 or Ruger 77/357, a CZ 527 or a Mini 14. But it is your money and your choice.

I'm not anti 9mm, in Fantasyland I would use this for deer, a Mauser 96 in 9mm Mauser Export
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With a ball projectile and cloth patch, I'd be seriously dubious about shots over 100 yards. Maybe less. Same sort of thing applies to a PCC, but not for quite the same reason. A ball has terrible longer range ballistics, a 9mm bullet not quite as bad. But the more powerful muzzle loaders will deliver considerably greater initial force to the heavier projectile, overcoming ballistic limitations at least initially. Seems sensible to consider anything over 100 as plinking for either, considering bullet drop of between about 3" for the fastest (lightest) 9mm and 7" for the 147gr subsonics. Getting into a couple of feet of holdover doesn't seem practical for hunting. Too much like longer range bow hunting - a fair bit of luck involved.

As for what's available, that's quite a list. Your best bet would be visiting prominent gun retailer's sites and filtering for calibre and/or searching for 'PCC' or '9mm carbine.'
 
MiG25 said:
I still can't see the hunting niche for a 7lb 9mm.

The 22LR outclasses it for gophers.
The 12 gauge outclasses it for hosing down coyotes at close range.
The SKS outclasses it for a cheap semi auto plinker.
A sporter Lee Enfield outclasses it for a detachable magazine truck/quad gun.
A Win 94 outclasses it for a carrying rifle.

And on and on.

I think it's niche is as a plinker.
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It works excellent for shooting magpies out of the basement window in my parents house. Have been doing that this Xmas season. I couldn't hit #### with the 22 so I switched it up.

So the hunting niche is a small one but it does exist.
 
KRJ said:
It works excellent for shooting magpies out of the basement window in my parents house. Have been doing that this Xmas season. I couldn't hit #### with the 22 so I switched it up.

So the hunting niche is a small one but it does exist.
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You were probably hitting them, just using something like Winchester Wildcat or Remington Viper or CCI Mini Mags. The Winchester 37gr Super-X works the best in my experience.
 
MiG25 said:
You were probably hitting them, just using something like Winchester Wildcat or Remington Viper or CCI Mini Mags. The Winchester 37gr Super-X works the best in my experience.
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I appreciate the faith in my ability. I have a few doubts. The nice thing about the 9. Is if you get them center mass they fall over(Then spots the cat gets up stretchs and eats them). You wing them you see feathers. I highly recommend the 9mm for magpies.

I was using fed 36 grain hp in the 22.

The one thing I agree with you on is that the 9mm carbines are a expensive toy without much practical use. I have however got a few coyotes and magpies out of a window. It's a lot quieter then the 204 ruger or 243 when fired out of a bedroom.

Was it worth the money? I'd say no.
Does it work well in certain rather limited circumstances? I have to say yes
Were those circumstances the reason I bought it ten years ago? I have to say no I was young, dumb and wanted a toy.
 
bb07 said:
I haven't but I know of a couple people that have. Also have a friend that killed a nuisance black bear at his cabin that was trying to get inside. All he had was a .22 magnum so that's what he used. One shot took care of it. I never thought to ask where he hit it though.[/QUOTE

in the mind.....?
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I plan on trying 9mm carbine deer hunting. I have a mule doe tag and access to a property with a large herd, and the opportunity to get the 50 yard broadside shot I feel necessary. Works great on gophers and grouse so far. Shot placement and distance limitations. I've already passed several 100 yard standing broadside opportunities, just not close enough. I was looking through the Alberta regs on the subject, and though the 9mm is well over the minimum .23" diameter, there is a restriction on autoloaders for big game being limited to 5 rd magazine capacity. So I view it like plugging a shotgun mag, limit a 10 rd pistol mag to half capacity and go for it!
 
Myself I enjoy honing hunting skills to minimalist equipment:
archery deer hunting
30-30 deer hunting at medium range
222 on coyotes beyond 200
wild boar hunt with iron sights slug gun

However deer hunting with 9mm parabellum is not on my short or long list. I am not that comfortable with this energy level beyond 20 yards.
 
I think the 9mm would make an effective deer round just like a large crescent wrench makes an effective hammer...which is to say, it could work but there are better choices. I don't know what I'd think if my roofer showed up wearing a wrench in his tool belt.
 
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