Suggest a load for my 357mag please

sgt.rock

CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Rating - 100%
159   0   0
I came across some cast 140gr lead swc 357 bullets and cant find ANY data for this weight lead bullet.
They are hardcast.
Being up here in Yellowknife leaves me with poor or no options for components/powders.
I only have these powders on hand:
Titegroup
Power Pistol
Clays
H110
2 guns: Rossi M92 with 16" barrel
Ruger GP100 with 4.2" barrel
95% of my reloads are for the Rossi.
Can anyone suggest a start load and possibly a max load and COAL?
 
Last edited:
Take the data for the 150 lead bullet.
None of the powder you want to use are listed for any cast bullet load in the .357
Titegroup is close to bullseye - they list 4.6 to 7..will start at 5 and work up, but this is not my way to reload..I stick with recommended powder..but up to you.
 
I shoot cowboy action, lead bullets only, and low velocity. For target shooting and sports without a power factor to worry about, cast bullets work well.

I've bought some "came across" stashes, and they can be a challenge. There is a bit more to a cast bullet than the weight, in your case 140 grains. How hard are they, if you have a tester you can check the BHN of one. If not, can you scrape lead off with your thumb nail. If you can it's soft, if not it's hard. Next is the diameter, which should match the cylinder throats, or groove, or somewhere in between. I'd guess they are a hard(ish) cast bullet with a hard blue or red lube in the groove(s). They are probably sized 0.357".

I don't know what brand of gun you have, but in all likihood they will lead your forcing cone and barrel to some extent.

Of all you powders, Clays would be the first one I would try. It has a burn rate in the faster zone, almost like Red Dot for performance.

Next, I would load them in 38 Special brass, if you use 357 Mag brass when you get to the point where the brass is expanding properly and the cases aren't sooty, your velocity will be in the too fast zone. Or, they could work well. Such is the cast bullet game.

Assuming you have a 357 Magnum pistol, I'd use between 2.5 and 3.4 grains of clays in a 38 Special case. I just went to the hodgdon sight and used the Hornady Cowboy bullet, which is comparable in bullet weight and your cartridge OAL should be close as well.

In a 357 Mag case, you can probably go up to 4 grains.

Hornady data is pretty decent, and they have a 140 gr bullet, not cast, but soft swaged. Hornady 10 still has data listed.

I hope you have better luck than I did. My "came across" bullets were 133 grains, hard and a bit undersized. I eventually got them to work after a fashion, in 38 Long Colt brass. I will melt the last of them down and cast different bullets.

I have more 38 Special/357 Magnum guns than most shooters, and I don't like to load special loads for each one. I have a load for my rifles, a X-Metal coated bullet, now discontinued, that works fantastic. It will also shoot well in my revolvers. I also have a revolver specific load, I cast up wadcutters with a LEE mold and without to much fanfare, they shoot well in all but one of my guns. The odd man out is a Colt, with a small bore, and it will lead a bit.

For cast bullets, a chronograph is a handy tool, it allows you to pick suitable primers, one which will give reliable ignition. If you end up with poor performance, I'd try Trail Boss powder. Or, I'd put your bullets in hot water to remove all the lube, then dry them and spray them with brakes kleen to remove any grease, and then powder coat them. Powder coated bullets can be driven faster and aren't too fussy on size. LEE Liquid Alox added to lubed bullets sometimes helps as well. 45-45-10 works better, but you'd have to order than in from the US.

I also hope you are only using these for target shooting, a slow moving lead bullet is a poor small game hunting bullet. Sure, if you put enough holes in it, it will succumb, but nothing beats a jacketed HP bullet at over 1200 fps.

Nitro
 
Update, just went to Kanadian Tire. Got 2 lbs of H110 also (not really useful for cast bullets I think, but now 4 powders on hand)
I am shooting a Rossi Model 92 levergun with 16" barrel and a RUGER GP100 with 4.2" barrel.
I plan on shooting 95% of my reloads through the rifle, so not worried about forcing cone leading etc.
 
Don't beat me up for this but from what I have understood over the years I have always tried to keep my lead bullets in the 900 fps area to prevent leading in the barrel . I have never reloaded lead bullets with gas checks on the ends . if so then I would increase the Velocity to Magnum speeds .
 
Don't beat me up for this but from what I have understood over the years I have always tried to keep my lead bullets in the 900 fps area to prevent leading in the barrel . I have never reloaded lead bullets with gas checks on the ends . if so then I would increase the Velocity to Magnum speeds .

I see no reason to beat you up, and I'll expound on your statement, perhaps a bit further than the threads original path. Although not entirely a fps limit as other factors come into play, but for a normal cast bullet of medium hardness and lubed in a conventional manner, in order to exceed 800 to 900 fps does require that more things are more perfect. IOW, the condition and size of the bore/groove, and may require matching the lube to the load. There hare many lubes, some hard, some soft, some with alox, some without alox, etc. And not all bullets can tolerate velocity.

But in a nutshell, the limit is around that 900 fps. That is of course from a pistol, in a rifle, which is less prone to bore leading, (usually), that speed would be closer to 1200 fps. Accuracy would be your criteria. With a rifle, a chronograph only tells one part of the story, the target will tell you the rest of the story. Usually, without too much fanfare, 2" groups are easily obtained. To get smaller groups, takes a bit more work, or luck.

A gas checked, properly designed bullet can usually be driven a bit faster. One factor is that the copper gas check can grip the rifling better than lead. The gas check also lets your alloy be a bit softer than your pressure would normally allow. Here the real life limit is around 1600 fps, perhaps 1800 fps under some circumstances. Part of the fun and enjoyment of shooting cast is that the loads don't beat you up. I had a Winchester 1894 in 38-55. A light rifle and somewhere after 1800 fps with a 285 gr bullet, the fun factor went away. At around 1600 fps accuracy was good and I didn't have to perform and bullet or reloading heroics to get good accuracy. It is in the zone for most rifles. Rifles shooting pistol calibers with gas checked bullets is a bit out of my sphere of experience, but if you switch between cast and jacketed bullets, using a gas checked bullet is something I'd recommend.

Coating or painting a cast bullet extends it range of trouble free use. I've used Hi-Tek coated bullets, and they are real forgiving. Leading is not the norm, although if you try, you can make them lead the bore/grooves. This I know from experience. But, as a rule of thumb, near gas check velocities are possible, with good accuracy.

Harder cast bullets are a bit more forgiving than softer ones, for the most part. Some casters water drop their bullets to temper them, make them harder, others heat treat them even harder. Others cast with linotype for hard (and a bit more brittle) bullet. If sized near to groove diameter, hard bullets can shoot rather well.

But: To stay on topic, that is what powder is best for my 140 gr commercial cast bullet in a 357 Mag rifle, I'll post some data, a bit outdated, for Oregon Trails laser cast bullets. First off, a 140 gr truncated cone or SWC bullet is not common, and the data I'll post is no exception. They have 125 data and 158 data, that's it.

wTeeLzi.jpg


jUthzPo.jpg


I still think your best luck will be with Clays. Lots of shooters use Titegroup, and I've tried it in my 357. It's OK, showed some promise. It's used as a substitute for bullseye mostly. It burns a bit cleaner and is less position sensitive. H110 is a somewhat specialized powder. It is the same as WW 296. reducing the charge below listed minimum is not recommended.

And please don't beat me up, I'm still new to the game of shooting cast. I probably haven't shot more than 500 # of lead. For a while I bought molds, have at least 20, and have learned that there is no magic bullet. Shooting cast is a bit Zen like, depends on the magic for success.

Nitro
 
A soft cast bullet driven fast will lead a barrel also a hard cast bullet driven slow will lead a barrel, there is a formula related to load pressure to optimize powder charge to bullet hardness. I have it someplace i’ll Have to look for it later heading to the range right now. Generally our lead cast bullets are much harder now than they were shooting in the same caliber firearms 50-60 years ago and they managed to get by without abnormal leading.
 
Back
Top Bottom