Suggestions for an-all-around rifle....
- Thread starter do15
- Start date
Well gentlemen, I have loaded extensively for both the 30-06 and 300 WM and 300 Wby and 300 RUM and I can tell you that with 180 gn bullets the 300 WM has 400 fps on the 30-06 out of 24" barrels. Yes I load to the absolute max but I do in the '06 as well, so apples to apples so to speak.....the 06 will give 2900 from a 180 in a 24" barrel and I have had 3 different 300 WMs that would give 3300 fps with 180 Parts in a 24" barrel, and 3100 fps with a 200 gn part. My 300 Wby adds another 100 fps to that with the 200s in a 24" barrel as well.
Now before the sh!tstorm starts let me say that these loads were safe in the rifles I fired and chronographed them in and I realize not all guns will attain these figures, but like I said all 3 of the 300 WMs did without blowing a primer or loosening a pocket for at least 5 loads and all were chrono'd through an Oehler mod 35P. So to say there is minimal difference between the 06 and 300 WM or my pet the 300 Wby is to say there is no difference between the 300 Sav and the 30-06.
The other factor not being addressed here is "time of flight" which has an extreme difference on the bullets as they wend their way to the target, BDC and all that other crap not withstanding the shorter time gravity and wind have to affect the bullet the greater the chances of a successful first shot and this includes as close as 250 mtrs. This, as well as the retained energy are in extreme favor of the big 30 mags.
No one is suggesting the 338 Lapua or 30-378 to the newbie but I for one do not think the 300 WM is beyond the capabilities of any shooter willing to put in the time, effort and ammunition to hit a deer sized target at 1000 mtrs as was expressed by the OP. I never berated him for including this criteria, as some here did, but I did most definitely include it in the criteria I used when suggesting the 300 mags. IF he is willing to put in the time and ammo required to place bullets consistently on a 1000 mtr deer sized target then he is most assuredly going to be doing enough shooting to master a 300 WM. Unless of course he is small and slim of stature and faint of heart.
Maybe BUM is right and all the thousands of rounds of CF rifle and big bore stuff has dulled my senses and made me somewhat recoil resistant, or possibly brain damaged, but I find the 300s very shootable in a good fitting rifle with a good recoil pad. I have also taken newbies to the range and started with a 243 but had them shooting a 375 H&H well by the end of one day and asking to shoot more 375. I'm sure I'm not the only one here who has experienced this. Overcoming recoil is a mental discipline and is not about pain or suffering and can be learned by anyone. Once you realize you are going to be pushed but it doesn't actually hurt you, you are well on your way to overcoming recoil. The more you shoot the easier it becomes to out concentrate the effects of recoil and recoil anticipation.
Now before the sh!tstorm starts let me say that these loads were safe in the rifles I fired and chronographed them in and I realize not all guns will attain these figures, but like I said all 3 of the 300 WMs did without blowing a primer or loosening a pocket for at least 5 loads and all were chrono'd through an Oehler mod 35P. So to say there is minimal difference between the 06 and 300 WM or my pet the 300 Wby is to say there is no difference between the 300 Sav and the 30-06.
The other factor not being addressed here is "time of flight" which has an extreme difference on the bullets as they wend their way to the target, BDC and all that other crap not withstanding the shorter time gravity and wind have to affect the bullet the greater the chances of a successful first shot and this includes as close as 250 mtrs. This, as well as the retained energy are in extreme favor of the big 30 mags.
No one is suggesting the 338 Lapua or 30-378 to the newbie but I for one do not think the 300 WM is beyond the capabilities of any shooter willing to put in the time, effort and ammunition to hit a deer sized target at 1000 mtrs as was expressed by the OP. I never berated him for including this criteria, as some here did, but I did most definitely include it in the criteria I used when suggesting the 300 mags. IF he is willing to put in the time and ammo required to place bullets consistently on a 1000 mtr deer sized target then he is most assuredly going to be doing enough shooting to master a 300 WM. Unless of course he is small and slim of stature and faint of heart.
Maybe BUM is right and all the thousands of rounds of CF rifle and big bore stuff has dulled my senses and made me somewhat recoil resistant, or possibly brain damaged, but I find the 300s very shootable in a good fitting rifle with a good recoil pad. I have also taken newbies to the range and started with a 243 but had them shooting a 375 H&H well by the end of one day and asking to shoot more 375. I'm sure I'm not the only one here who has experienced this. Overcoming recoil is a mental discipline and is not about pain or suffering and can be learned by anyone. Once you realize you are going to be pushed but it doesn't actually hurt you, you are well on your way to overcoming recoil. The more you shoot the easier it becomes to out concentrate the effects of recoil and recoil anticipation.
Whats wrong with my math? Sure I rounded a bit but the numbers should line up with the velocities I've given. Which are the velocities I get.
I've got 4 30-06s, which does seem a bit strange for a guy that doesn't particularily like (Or hate them) If you can get 2800 + out of your '06 that's great, but unless you borrow me yours I'll just have to make do with what I have. Come to think of it, I did OK with my Cooper 30-06 this year.
I don't get bent out of shape about the .300s, truth to be told I actually prefer my 7 mm STWs for what I do most of the time. My preferences are not the point however, the OP is asking about a caliber for everything in North America and 1000 yard shooting. To me the gives the nod to the .300s.
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Nothing wrong with YOUR math Dogleg as it matches mine almost to the decimal point. The reality is there is 400 fps difference any way you cut it............06 @ 2700 and 300 @ 3100 or as in my rifles 06 @2900 and 300 @3300......still a significant difference!!! Now try the 200s and there is an even greater difference.
My life got better when I decided to embrace not being normal. Things sort of fell into place after that.
Normal is a relative and highly flexible term, what's normal in Africa is considered aberrant in NA, so who knows or more to the point who cares..................Like Popeye says "I yam what I yam"
CreamySmooth
CGN frequent flyer
DING DING DING!!! WIN-NA WIN-NA CHICKEN DINNA!!!
And with large cap mags.
My buddy hunts with a Ruger .308. The equivalent now would be the laminate compact, but I think it was called the "Scout" before?? It has a scout scope rail on it. I will get one as soon as they make it in .338 Fed as carrying a 5.75 pd rifle is just nice. I would have bought in 6.8 SPC but they discontinued that version. I also note that the new "All American" rifle has a synthetic compact. Wonder if it will measure up? For 448 looks nice!
CreamySmooth
CGN frequent flyer
Thanks "Dad". I needed to be told that I don't "need" a high cap mag. But you know what? Yer right. I don't need one. I WANT one. That doesn't mean I have to shoot the thing empty, but if I want, I can carry a big honkin magazine so I can look as Tactical as I damn well want. Just cause I wanna.
I shoot an elk, usually a moose and 1 or 2 deer a year, plus odd geese and ducks. So I eat lots of venison, and I do it with cool a$$ guns that are blacker than my soul whenever I can. So I eat lots of venison. And lots of "chicken dinna".
Thank you for the Fudd'ing.
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Got some pics of the good bulls with black guns? I believe you, I just like to see the different sides of the sport, lets see em.
X2 on the 7 mil
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Unfortunately, it wasn't the brightest post, there is zero functional difference between a .270 Win, a .30-06, a .260, a .280 AI, a .308, a .338 Fed... and on and on. They all spit a chunk of accelerated metal at roughly the same velocity, of roughly the same size, and kill game. These silly put downs of "old and boring" cartridges hold about as much water as the folks who are married to one brand of vehicle and all others are rubbish.
There are differences, but they are so slight they literally do not matter for 99% of what we do as hunters.Just set up a dinner plate sized object on a tree about three feet off the ground then walk about 10 football fields away and then turn around and have a think about it.
Also don't forget deer are usally deer coloured and have a pesky habit of moving.
Also don't forget deer are usally deer coloured and have a pesky habit of moving.
sorry ...u have an 06...haha
Unfortunately, it wasn't the brightest post, there is zero functional difference between a .270 Win, a .30-06, a .260, a .280 AI, a .308, a .338 Fed... and on and on. They all spit a chunk of accelerated metal at roughly the same velocity, of roughly the same size, and kill game. These silly put downs of "old and boring" cartridges hold about as much water as the folks who are married to one brand of vehicle and all others are rubbish.
