Super Long Range Hunting
- Thread starter X-man
- Start date
Wow! Guess I hit a nerve or two there!
...and yes, I can hit out to 700-800 yards, I've even hit out to 1000 yards on a consistent basis. Would I consider shooting at a big game animal at those distances? Nope! My personal choice...for you asshats that think shooting a Moose at 800 yards makes you more of a "man" by all means, volley away!
My original point was the fact that there are many "hunters" out there these days who, after reading articles about long-range hunting, figure that its something they can do....WITHOUT putting in the trigger time, under FIELD conditions to develop the skills necessary to humanely harvest animals at those distances. Hence, the increase in wounded game I've seen of late, as have other hunters.
Anyone who can argue against that is not a hunter, but rather the nemesis of every responsible hunter, as we all get tarred by the same brush when some left-wing, tree-hugging animal rights group starts a public protest over irresponsible "hunters" maiming cute, cuddly deer and moose. Evil, evil men! We must BAN hunting!
As for the cow moose I spoke of, it was shot today by another hunter. After examining the animal, it was quickly determined by the conservation officer that was contacted, that the leg wound was from a bullet. There are no wolves in Newfoundland, and very few Black Bears on the Avalon Peninsula. None have ever been sighted in the area I was hunting. As for the cow moose, the conservation officer determined that due to the infection, the animal was not fit for human consumption and the hunter will receive a replacement set of tags. I'm glad the animal is out of its misery, but again, it is a pure waste of a precious resource, because some individual attempted a shot that was beyond his skill set.
Speaking only for myself, true hunting isn't about killing...some of the best hunts I've ever been on, have ended with an unfilled tag, by my own choice. If I was only interested in killing something, I'd set up on the highest hill in my favorite hunting area with a .50 BMG and pot moose at 2 klicks! Part of the appeal for me has always been matching my wits/skills vs. the animal's far more acute senses to get as close as possible, and then make the kill shot.
It isn't about the kill shot, its about EARNING that shot...at least it is for me. If you don't feel that way, fine, you're entitled. What I don't like PERSONALLY is new guys trying to replace skills and trigger time with technology and ultra mags that double or triple the effective range within which an animal can be killed. I still believe that the current crop of gun writers have a responsibility to write about responsible harvesting methods, even though they have the skills to kill at 800 yards. After years, if not decades in the field, I'm sure many of them have such skills. However, the 18-19 year old kid just starting out on his hunting career does not!
For those posters who dumped on me, have at it! I guess I made the mistake of thinking we could carry on an adult debate, on an issue that I'm sure will become of increasing importance to our sport in the future' especially as irresponsible actions by the few, garners increased negative publicity for us all.
...and yes, I can hit out to 700-800 yards, I've even hit out to 1000 yards on a consistent basis. Would I consider shooting at a big game animal at those distances? Nope! My personal choice...for you asshats that think shooting a Moose at 800 yards makes you more of a "man" by all means, volley away! My original point was the fact that there are many "hunters" out there these days who, after reading articles about long-range hunting, figure that its something they can do....WITHOUT putting in the trigger time, under FIELD conditions to develop the skills necessary to humanely harvest animals at those distances. Hence, the increase in wounded game I've seen of late, as have other hunters.
Anyone who can argue against that is not a hunter, but rather the nemesis of every responsible hunter, as we all get tarred by the same brush when some left-wing, tree-hugging animal rights group starts a public protest over irresponsible "hunters" maiming cute, cuddly deer and moose. Evil, evil men! We must BAN hunting!
As for the cow moose I spoke of, it was shot today by another hunter. After examining the animal, it was quickly determined by the conservation officer that was contacted, that the leg wound was from a bullet. There are no wolves in Newfoundland, and very few Black Bears on the Avalon Peninsula. None have ever been sighted in the area I was hunting. As for the cow moose, the conservation officer determined that due to the infection, the animal was not fit for human consumption and the hunter will receive a replacement set of tags. I'm glad the animal is out of its misery, but again, it is a pure waste of a precious resource, because some individual attempted a shot that was beyond his skill set.
Speaking only for myself, true hunting isn't about killing...some of the best hunts I've ever been on, have ended with an unfilled tag, by my own choice. If I was only interested in killing something, I'd set up on the highest hill in my favorite hunting area with a .50 BMG and pot moose at 2 klicks!
Part of the appeal for me has always been matching my wits/skills vs. the animal's far more acute senses to get as close as possible, and then make the kill shot. It isn't about the kill shot, its about EARNING that shot...at least it is for me. If you don't feel that way, fine, you're entitled. What I don't like PERSONALLY is new guys trying to replace skills and trigger time with technology and ultra mags that double or triple the effective range within which an animal can be killed. I still believe that the current crop of gun writers have a responsibility to write about responsible harvesting methods, even though they have the skills to kill at 800 yards. After years, if not decades in the field, I'm sure many of them have such skills. However, the 18-19 year old kid just starting out on his hunting career does not!
For those posters who dumped on me, have at it! I guess I made the mistake of thinking we could carry on an adult debate, on an issue that I'm sure will become of increasing importance to our sport in the future' especially as irresponsible actions by the few, garners increased negative publicity for us all.
Distance doenst matter, ability does.
I know at least 2 men that a 600 yard shot is no more challenging than a 200 yard shot to most hunters.
Hunt and shoot within your abilities.
Longer range hunting *IS* hunting, and it *IS a "craft." It's just a different segment of the craft of hunitng.
I know at least 2 men that a 600 yard shot is no more challenging than a 200 yard shot to most hunters.
Hunt and shoot within your abilities.
Longer range hunting *IS* hunting, and it *IS a "craft." It's just a different segment of the craft of hunitng.
- Location
- calgary, AB
Why is there so many different "ethics" about hunting? Here we go agaian about the "ethics" of long range hunting, another "debate".
If a person can make a clean kill at 800 yds, give the person credit. Its not as easy as it seems. If he is a new hunter who is 18-19, whos to say he hasn't been shooting since the age of 10!
What gives a person the right to b@#ch about someone using a .243 to take down a moose, or the person who drives the road for hours looking for a deer at the side of the road? 150 gr vs. 165 gr or scope vs. open sights?
I've seen vetren hunters miss at 100yds! To each his own and please don't preach, police or confuse those who WANT to learn the TRUE ethics of hunting!!!
If a person can make a clean kill at 800 yds, give the person credit. Its not as easy as it seems. If he is a new hunter who is 18-19, whos to say he hasn't been shooting since the age of 10!
What gives a person the right to b@#ch about someone using a .243 to take down a moose, or the person who drives the road for hours looking for a deer at the side of the road? 150 gr vs. 165 gr or scope vs. open sights?
I've seen vetren hunters miss at 100yds! To each his own and please don't preach, police or confuse those who WANT to learn the TRUE ethics of hunting!!!
i agree with xman
i believe to slalk and get close to your prey is a hunter
if you cant get your fat ass at least 100 yards away from the animal you have no buisness hunting, the animal deserves the respect to have a chance. if you cant get close to it you dont deserve to take its life. sniping an animal is not skill its relying on machine to do your work. so become a better hunter -learn to stalk and lay off the mcdonalds - learn to hunt or stick to that deer hunting game at the bar
my opinion ...free country .... say what i think blah blah blah
i believe to slalk and get close to your prey is a hunter
if you cant get your fat ass at least 100 yards away from the animal you have no buisness hunting, the animal deserves the respect to have a chance. if you cant get close to it you dont deserve to take its life. sniping an animal is not skill its relying on machine to do your work. so become a better hunter -learn to stalk and lay off the mcdonalds - learn to hunt or stick to that deer hunting game at the bar
my opinion ...free country .... say what i think blah blah blah
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What an idiotic post...
.lupus said:
You have no business hunting if you cannot get wihtin 100 yards?
Maybe i shodul say you have no business hunting if you are such a poor marksman that you cannot make a proper shot past 100 yards.
It's not your place to decide who does and does not deserve to take the life of an animal
What absolute BULL####!!
Shootign at longer ranges is not relying on a machine, it is every bit a learned skill as stalkign close. It is jst a different skill. Some peopel have both skills, BTW...
yeah, those guys that spend 2 weeks in the mountains hunitng sheep and thhen get a shot at 400 yards and make the shot- because they have practiced and knwo how to shoot- should all lay of the McDs
- Location
- calgary, AB
Me thinks some people should consider bow hunting if they want to stalk all day to get within 100yds!!!
!BIGREDD said:
Feel free bud...eltorro said:
I guess I am pissed off... it seems that many among us don't see the forest for the trees.
This silly idea that long range hunters are somehow less skilled and using equipment to make up for this lack of ability is totally absurd!
There are no facts or studies to back up any of the supposed horrors or proof of this foolish contention that long range hunting is responsible for wounded animals.
Posting this baffle garb in the guise of Ethics is dangerous to the tradition of our sport!
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How come most people feel the need to be humane and ethical when big game hunting, but it seems to be generally acceptable to take marginal shots on varmints, and I never hear of anyone being admonished for not ensuring that the gopher didn't escape wounded ?
- Location
- Hillbilly shack in the boonies
Awesome Notion, its a rush. That up close hunting can't be beat.
I think that varmint and predator hunting are viewed with a different perspective than big game hunting by many hunters. Everyone is entitled to choose their own ethical standards, as long as they are within the law.
What exactly is a marginal shot on a varmint?
Lets give it a name shall we... hunting is killing... exactly how humane is that?
What exactly is a marginal shot on a varmint?
Lets give it a name shall we... hunting is killing... exactly how humane is that?
BIGREDD said:!
The original post on this thread was not a thoughtful opinion worthy of debate... it was simply a mindless rant attacking long rang hunting!
This silly idea that long range hunters are somehow less skilled and using equipment to make up for this lack of ability is totally absurd!
There are no facts or studies to back up any of the supposed horrors or proof of this stupid contention that long range hunting is responsible for wounded animals.
Posting this baffle garb in the guise of Ethics is not only idiotic but dangerous to the tradition of our sport! And anyone who does so is not a Hunter or a Sportsmen by any definition of the words.
Shame!
Bigredd,
I obviously touched a nerve with you. I don't appreciate being called idiotic nor mindless. The point of my post was to encourage responsibility in both hunters and hunting/gun journalists. It is the veteran hunters who are tasked with teaching newcomers to our sport.
As for there being "stats" on the long-range wounding of animals...all I can offer is first hand observations. In the past I've seen individuals empty their rifle magazines several times, firing at big game animals that were not within their skills to hit. Individuals like this are the true danger to our sport. If you want to gain some idea as to the opponet our sport is facing, check out some of the posters on the Eco Defense board located on the EZ Bulletin Board system. Once they're done with seal hunters and fur farmers, make no mistake, we're next!
If you have the skills and ability to hunt at super long ranges, good for you! If you have the equipment and can take your animal cleanly, with the absolute minimum of pain and distress to the animal, I have absolutely no problems with that. I do have a problem with impressionable kids, reading about similar hunts, who then go out and try to emulate those authors, without putting in the trigger time to develop those skills. If you can't acknowledge that, then I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. If you are interested in learning more about hunter ethics, you might want to pick up anything written by Aldo Leopold or Jose Ortega y Gasset. I'll leave you with two of my favourite quotes from them. In the meantime, if you must attack, attack my arguments and leave the personal stuff out of it.
Gatehouse said:What an idiotic post...
.
What absolute BULLs**t!!
Shootign at longer ranges is not relying on a machine, it is every bit a learned skill as stalkign close. It is jst a different skill. Some peopel have both skills, BTW...
yeah, those guys that spend 2 weeks in the mountains hunitng sheep and thhen get a shot at 400 yards and make the shot- because they have practiced and knwo how to shoot- should all lay of the McDs
All im saying is that i see a true hunter (in my eyes ) can stalk an animal and get close. Plus how can you say that learning to relying on a machine is equal to learning how to stalk and get close. obviously we disagree and thats the fun of a debate. I prefer to make the kill close and personal where as i feel that a long distance kill is impersonable. hell why not just hunt with a Laser guided missle
Just for the record i can shoot a great distance in the range/feild targets but im not going to take a chance on just injuring an animal and hope to track it 1/2 a kilometer away, cuz that sucks
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Don't depend on a machine!
Your spiritual predecessor probably said, a few centuries ago, "Well then, sneak up close, leap out at it and rip its throat out with your teeth, anything else isn't sporting! A club may be okay, but only if it weighs at least 2 rocks. These new "SPEARS" are taking the ethics right out of hunting! "
I don't repect animals, I repect myself and other humans; animals, I eat. Don't try to bring in some sort of quasi-religious ju-ju rules.
Your spiritual predecessor probably said, a few centuries ago, "Well then, sneak up close, leap out at it and rip its throat out with your teeth, anything else isn't sporting! A club may be okay, but only if it weighs at least 2 rocks. These new "SPEARS" are taking the ethics right out of hunting! "
I don't repect animals, I repect myself and other humans; animals, I eat. Don't try to bring in some sort of quasi-religious ju-ju rules.
- Location
- Hillbilly shack in the boonies
Use the Force Luke!
oldbadger said:
Stop it...this is a public forum, children may be watching. Besides Lupsu may be gettin' after your spelling.
Anyways, on to more serious stuff...you don't respect animals? then may I suggest you join the military and help out our forces in Afghanistan...have at 'er.
oldbadger said:
I have to admitt that the spear did ruin the true bitting the deer art
Im not bringing in a quasi ju ju im saying how i view hunting, and your view is diffrent hence the point of a forum is to discuss. My opinion may not be yours, so dont get pissed off, amen for the idea of goin to Astan and shooting some varmin
Lets look at your statement:
well, you siad 100 yards. that isn't relaly "close"
Unlessyou are kiling animals with your bare hands, youare "RELYING" on a machine. And your skills to use it.
.
The animla cares not about how personal it's death is.
Why not hunt wiht a knife? if you are dead set against anyone shooting longer ranges, then put your money where your mouth is. Do it knife and bare knuckles...
If you have the proper skills, which are hard earned, you won't be taking any more chances than the guy that shoots at shorter range. The "chances" will just be different ones, is all...
well, you siad 100 yards. that isn't relaly "close"
Unlessyou are kiling animals with your bare hands, youare "RELYING" on a machine. And your skills to use it.
.
The animla cares not about how personal it's death is.
No, we dont' relaly disagree about how close we want to be. I'll take cose over far any day, and Iliek to get REAL close to bears if I can. We disagree that a longer shot an be ethical or "sporting"
hell why not just hunt with a Laser guided missle
Why not hunt wiht a knife? if you are dead set against anyone shooting longer ranges, then put your money where your mouth is. Do it knife and bare knuckles...
If you have the proper skills, which are hard earned, you won't be taking any more chances than the guy that shoots at shorter range. The "chances" will just be different ones, is all...
