Surrender or destruction!

Grumpy Wolverine said:
Put the liberals in there and you better find another hobby. Remember they are being led by a man who said he admires china and how they can accomplish things with their dictatorship. I don't like a lot of what is going on but come on, if the CPC loses to the liberals or the NDP we are going to be in a world of hurt we won't be able to get back from with our sport and property.
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First of all let me say thank you to wolverine for the info and great support so far, thank you. I am no liberal and never voted for them. What is happening now considering that we have a majority is a disgrace, that standard response from the MLA including mine is that this was done by bureaucrats. Is the mister in a habit of singing orders from bureaucrats that turn thousands of Canadians into criminals over night, if it was a mistake why not revers the order, instead of the 5 year, opps I mean 2 year amnesty. Unfortunately we have the default position of voting for CPC even when they don't listen to us and they know this, our votes for them have become automatic. Maybe if we let them know that they must do what the people want or be voted out, perhaps they would listen, but we cants seem to even consider this.

PS not a fan of the liberal hop head either.
 
stone25 said:
The key word here is unreasonable. These firearms were arbitrarily reclassified after thousands of Canadians legally purchased them.

I agree that if someone is in possession of illegally obtained prohibited weapons the RCMP should seize them. That makes sense and helps to keep citizens safe.

However these guns we are talking about are not fully automatic or WMDs or any more dangerous than any other semi auto hunting rifle and were above all purchased legally and thus should remain the legal property of the owner. What's next? Shall we allow shotguns to be reclassified? A 12 gauge pump with a tube full of 00 buck is far more dangerous than a semi auto small caliber rifle limited to 5 rounds.
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I agree that there would be no harm done by keeping 858's as non-restricted, but that is no longer the case. They are now prohibited, making seizure of the weapons reasonable. Unfortunately the Charter of Rights and Freedoms does not protect us from stupidity (RCMP), within regards to firearms categorization.
 
BlairW said:
The firearms in question should not have been deemed prohibited in the first place, so I'd say seizing them is quite unreasonable.
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The argument is that the firearms were wrongfully placed in the prohibited category. The seizure of the now prohibited firearms is unarguably legal, but the transfer from non-restricted to prohibited is what we all deem ridiculous; lawful but still ridiculous.
 
The fact that they are now prohibited, still does not make seizure of them "reasonable". There are many prohibited firearms owned legally in this country. But they won't allow proper liscensing to people who don't currently have a 12.x pal. The whole system is simply broken beyond repair.

But if you think unelected bureaucrats can just decide on what should be prohibited, and willingly allow them to take your property, have a time.
 
BlairW said:
The fact that they are now prohibited, still does not make seizure of them "reasonable". There are many prohibited firearms owned legally in this country. But they won't allow proper liscensing to people who don't currently have a 12.x pal. The whole system is simply broken beyond repair.

But if you think unelected bureaucrats can just decide on what should be prohibited, and willingly allow them to take your property, have a time.
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A person not holding a prohibited licence while in possession of a prohibited firearm is a crime, and is grounds for reasonable seizure.

The process that made the 858 a prohibited firearm is what is questionable and objectionable.

The purpose of my original statement was to clarify that the Charter of Rights and Freedoms does not protect the citizens in this particular situation. By the RCMP making the 858 a prohibited (which I do not agree with), licence holders without the prohibited designation are now illegally possessing those firearms, which now "legally" justifies seizure.
 
I understand what you're saying, though as you can see it's not making you popular.

As an individual with 12.5 firearms I really feel for these guys affected, and have written in to the Minister and the PM.

What are they going to do now with the 2 year amnesty? start a new 12X like the 12.7 or just assume that those with formally NR firearms will obey a bureaucratic edict? They know who owns the restricted versions, who actually owns the formally NR ones is a crap shoot and they hope to intimidate owners into reporting them.

Good luck.
 
wiener said:
A person not holding a prohibited licence while in possession of a prohibited firearm is a crime, and is grounds for reasonable seizure.

The process that made the 858 a prohibited firearm is what is questionable and objectionable.

The purpose of my original statement was to clarify that the Charter of Rights and Freedoms does not protect the citizens in this particular situation. By the RCMP making the 858 a prohibited (which I do not agree with), licence holders without the prohibited designation are now illegally possessing those firearms, which now "legally" justifies seizure.
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With zero notification and no official announcement from the officials that made it prohibited after years of lawful ownership!

No person can have a rating for prohibited weapon without a classification.......all current prohibited licenses are specific in the 12.x divisions. The CZ858 has no designation so nobody with any license can possess one, except a business that has a prohibited rating.

Putting all the SAN and CZ858 owners in jail would almost double the prison population in Canada!

If you are studying law, then you know the difference between the written law, and the spirit of the law, in this case the spirit of the law has been offended, and amnesty granted!

It has been my experience that laws are only effective if the law abiding agree to follow them, as if all the law abiding tomorrow decided to not comply with the law, then enforcement becomes impossible ;)

This is a bad decision and an abuse of power putting those owners in a bad position through zero act or omission of their own. I find it disgusting that any authority can waive a pen and magically create criminals that have not made that choice through some wrong act or omission.
 
Grumpy Wolverine said:
Put the liberals in there and you better find another hobby. Remember they are being led by a man who said he admires china and how they can accomplish things with their dictatorship. I don't like a lot of what is going on but come on, if the CPC loses to the liberals or the NDP we are going to be in a world of hurt we won't be able to get back from with our sport and property.
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Guns per 100 residents:

Canada 30.8
China: 4.9

hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_of_guns_per_capita_by_country
 
wiener said:
The argument is that the firearms were wrongfully placed in the prohibited category. The seizure of the now prohibited firearms is unarguably legal, but the transfer from non-restricted to prohibited is what we all deem ridiculous; lawful but still ridiculous.
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So you are studying law? Well answer me why there is a law in the first place that allows this nonsense? Oh yeah the past several other poorly written stepping stones to get to the place we were at so I ask you Mr. Law tell me how a law or categorization of something if it is initially written in vain with no common sense how can any laws succeeding it that are based off it, be legitimate?

Long story short, find something else to take in school or you will just be a crappy public defender or just quit trolling as said earlier.

No to be rude but there is no room for devils advocate trolls in forums like this. If I buy something that the gov't allowed me to buy (and approved it at any time) then tells me I can't have it because they are going to just to the opposite end of the classification system and reclassify it forgetting that they got rid of the gun registry and they will spend the next decade making the laws tighter to fix there mistake only by then all of the non restricted firearms will have changed hands several times and you will take a lifetime to chase one gun, while innovative individuals will make firearms that abide by the new loopholes, only to have history rinse and repeat.
 
wiener said:
A person not holding a prohibited licence while in possession of a prohibited firearm is a crime, and is grounds for reasonable seizure.

The process that made the 858 a prohibited firearm is what is questionable and objectionable.

The purpose of my original statement was to clarify that the Charter of Rights and Freedoms does not protect the citizens in this particular situation. By the RCMP making the 858 a prohibited (which I do not agree with), licence holders without the prohibited designation are now illegally possessing those firearms, which now "legally" justifies seizure.
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Nothing protects us in the country, and it is about damned time we change that. It is up to us to make sure we are protected and that we can protect ourselves. We are "allowed" property on the whims of the government and this is crap.
 
Grumpy Wolverine said:
Nothing protects us in the country, and it is about damned time we change that. It is up to us to make sure we are protected and that we can protect ourselves. We are "allowed" property on the whims of the government and this is crap.
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Agreed completely.
The RCMP should only be allowed to enforce the law and create it. By prohibiting these firearms they created a public safety risk by taking away the recreational aspect and creating a scenario where monetary gain was lost, leaving some with the thought that selling the now prohibited firearm will recoup some of the lost costs.

It wouldn't be fair to the rest of the taxpayers for the RCMP to refund the cost of these firearms.
 
sparq said:
I was thinking about that this morning actually - wondering what it would take to just get everyone new "compliant" receivers fabbed up in case this doesn't go our way. I'm glad someone is already on it :)
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new fabbed receivers should have a laser etched maple leaf with a circle/slash through it like the no smoking signs, out of protest.
 
wiener said:
Agreed completely.
The RCMP should only be allowed to enforce the law NOT create it. By prohibiting these firearms they created a public safety risk by taking away the recreational aspect and creating a scenario where monetary gain was lost, leaving some with the thought that selling the now prohibited firearm will recoup some of the lost costs.

It wouldn't be fair to the rest of the taxpayers for the RCMP to refund the cost of these firearms.
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Fixed it for you
 
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