Sustenance Hunting in AB

[leslea_kate]

Absoultely right! I can see a reasonable restriction being to hunt NON trophy... AKA you're out there for meat, not horns. Not that there tend to be many horns by January... (aka if it's year long, one needs to remember that the horns aren't year long).

I can't see sheep or goats being on the list. For meat, deer, elk & moose are plenty sufficient.

What it is, is that it's cheaper to let someone on AISH go out & blast a moose for his/her use for food, than it is to increase their stipend to a level that allows for healthy food options. If not for hunting, I'd be stuck with mostly starch & sugar, which is the WORST diet possible. It's also the cheapest.

L

Did it have any restrictions as to what game you could take?

There will be folk out there no better than the Metis feeling their need to sheep meat. Oh, look at that 190 B&C ram, I guess he will have to do....
There is a good reason more and more zones are switching to draws for Muley and Moose and even Elk. Otherwise supply cannot meet demand.

Leslea_Kate makes a good point but it isn't that this sustenance hunting is the answer, it is the fact that Aish is a crock of crap that barely keeps a person's head above water.

Just me, but this seems fishy, no pun intended.

 

[Foxer]

I don't know all the details and that's usually where the problems show up, but on the face of it it seems a reasonable policy to me.

Nobody is going to go out and buy new gear to do this. But it's alberta - tonnes of folk have hunting rifles available and when you look at the cost of meat it's really a hell of a cheap way to do things. A good sized deer provides a lot of meat. Lots of guys go thru a tough time where they're not making a lot of money for whatever reason, and meat in the freezer can help see you thru. And you'll likely feel a hell of a lot better about yourself than just taking the dole. At least you earned the meat.

 

[ponts]

I don't know all the details and that's usually where the problems show up, but on the face of it it seems a reasonable policy to me.

Nobody is going to go out and buy new gear to do this. But it's alberta - tonnes of folk have hunting rifles available and when you look at the cost of meat it's really a hell of a cheap way to do things. A good sized deer provides a lot of meat. Lots of guys go thru a tough time where they're not making a lot of money for whatever reason, and meat in the freezer can help see you thru. And you'll likely feel a hell of a lot better about yourself than just taking the dole. At least you earned the meat.

If you are able bodied enough to hunt you are certainly ok to work so get a job (not that hard in Alberta right now). The time spent chasing animals you would be better off working or looking for work.

Another factor is that there are now two classes of hunters with different priviledges. Those who work have to pay full pop for a license and hunt in the normal defined seasons. Those that don't work and can hunt year round. Why should I as an employed/ tax paying Albertan have less hunting priveldges? It is absolute an ####ing joke.

 

[leslea_kate]

Not always. For example, I have a few medical issues that mess with my hands & arms. It's random, so I don't know day to day, if I'm going to be doing well & able to do things like chat online (typing), cook food or do much more than watch TV while the pain meds kick in. It also is such that it can kick in at any time, to the point my hands curl up into useless lumps.

As such, when I hunt, I must do so with a partner, who is willing to shoulder what I can't do, should things go bad with my hands. For example, if they pack it in, half way through field dressing an animal, I NEED someone there to pick up where I can't continue.

Now when my hands are good, I CAN be able bodied enough to hunt. And if there's a job out there where I can work, given the limitations that I may or may not be able to use my hands in 5 minutes, and may be so mucked up that it may be days, even weeks before they ARE able to work again, by all means, PLEASE tell me what it is! Seriously! I'd LOVE to work. Even part time! But again, please tell me, what job there is, that doesn't need at least a very basic use of hands, or other dexterous appendage (my feet ain't that dexterous!).

The reasoning behind the hunts can differ too, which is a thing you're not acknowledging. Sure a regular hunter can & probably is, out for meat for the freezer. BUT they don't all rely on the meat from a hunt & if their season is unsuccessful, it's not like they're going to go hungry. Those who are looking at subsistence hunting, DO face that reality. AKA it's a big diff between the person on AISH who gets a deer or 2 for food for the year, or goes hungry, and the oilfield worker who brings in 5 grand a month & goes out hunting for the sport.

If you don't like that difference, rather than complain about the hunting, why not press your MP to call for an AISH stipend that actually gives the person on it a chance to live a decent life?

Or is that just too much effort compared to disliking that some COULD go out & help themselves? And maybe in the process, come remotely close to feeling like they're a decent person for being able to do SOMETHING toward feeding themselves & their family?

L

If you are able bodied enough to hunt you are certainly ok to work so get a job (not that hard in Alberta right now). The time spent chasing animals you would be better off working or looking for work.

Another factor is that there are now two classes of hunters with different priviledges. Those who work have to pay full pop for a license and hunt in the normal defined seasons. Those that don't work and can hunt year round. Why should I as an employed/ tax paying Albertan have less hunting priveldges? It is absolute f**king joke.

 

[leslea_kate]

I just talked with a gal at fish & wildlife about this program. The people who the meat is for, have to be the ones to hunt it. AKA an able bodied hunter, cannot go out & hunt for someone who is physically unable.

The gal also mentioned that those who apply for it under the subsistence (no $$) side, have to provide paperwork & proof of income with their application. Those who have the dietary requirement, have to provide a letter from their doctor, on office stationery (aka with the doc's office letterhead on it), with details of the requirement, such as allergies to pork & beef.

When I detailed my own situation, she said that not many people qualify, even those on AISH, that the best thing to do, is to get the paperwork, fill it out & either things go or they don't. Apparently, it's not just a matter of anyone getting it. There's a definite process and it sounds like it's quite strict.

The one proviso I'd personally recommend to them, is that they treat it like a draw... That the hunting takes place in areas that need certain numbers of animals culled. But that's only my opinion... Based a bit on common sense & what I read in the draw guide as to why there are draws.

L

 

[wobbles99]

People seem to forget how diverse Alberta's population is.

Sure it's easy to get a good paying job when you live in central alberta and most parts of the south and some of the north.

Pull out your atlas and take a look north of the highway 16 line. How many populated areas are there? Aside from certain towns and camps it's pretty well non existant. There are still people there.

 

[Foxer]

Not always. For example, I have a few medical issues that mess with my hands & arms. It's random, so I don't know day to day, if I'm going to be doing well & able to do things like chat online (typing), cook food or do much more than watch TV while the pain meds kick in. It also is such that it can kick in at any time, to the point my hands curl up into useless lumps.

Yup. There are a lot of other circumstances too.

Howsabout this little 'fun situation' - parents are making ends meet but then find out their kid has a learning disability that'll require attending either special school or getting home tutoring.. NEITHER of which is paid for by the gov't. Cost is about 10 grand a year.

We gave meat to a family like that several seasons. It made a huge difference. They didn't make much money and they were spending every cent they had spare on the kid, and still coming up just a little short. And no, he wasn't 'retarded' or the like. Even a hundred pounds of meat means about 500 bucks or more you didn't have to spend on similar cuts. That can make all the difference.

I could give about a dozen other examples as well. Everyone goes thru slow times once in a while, and sometimes it really catches you badly. Takes a little bit to get back on your feet. A little meat in the freezer so you have good healthy food to eat (especially if you've got kids - no one likes to think of their kids going without good food) can make a huge difference.

I think you're being a little judgemental there ponts. The world is rarely black and white.

 

[2fat2fly]

PLEASE tell me what it is! Seriously! I'd LOVE to work. Even part time! But again, please tell me, what job there is, that doesn't need at least a very basic use of hands, or other dexterous appendage (my feet ain't that dexterous!)

Wow, bad deal.
You do put things into a different prespective, particularily for those like myself that don't see the people with severe disabilities, but do have to deal with those that abuse the system. Can you imagine how well funded people with REAL disabilities would be if we could get rid of the deadwood that absorbs the majority of the funding?
In a case such as yours, the program certainly has merit, and it sounds like it's being well policed from the government side. When I first heard about this I thought it would be like the bus passes that Saskatchewan tax payers hand out to welfare recipients for 10% of value.
My mistake.

 

[Republic of Alberta]

If you are able bodied enough to hunt you are certainly ok to work so get a job (not that hard in Alberta right now). The time spent chasing animals you would be better off working or looking for work.

.

The guys that I have met that would qualify are so "simple minded" living out in their shacks and so far out of touch with society that they could not and would not ever be able to hold a good paying job. You know what? I envy their way of life too. They don't have 1/2 the problems the rest of us do.

I took a safety course with one of these kinds of guys (he works at the dump and is required to take first aid) and he could not read or write, I had to put his name on his test and he got the instructor to give him a oral exam. I am sure he did not know what "Boon and Crockett" was nor would he ever care.

I have a couple friends that are only in their 30's and 40's that grew up on farms with out running water, electricity or natural gas, they remember their father poaching game behind the house to keep food on the table. A couple years ago a friend of mine figured out that a moose was worth about $1000 of meat if you bought it. That is a lot of money to a guy trying to build a farm out of bush and second hand macherey.


I know there are the abusers but this is Alberta not Eastern Canada, it is a lot harder to scam the system here. I have NEVER heard of someone taking a trophy off this tag or ever heard of anyone getting one when they don't really qualify. Have you?

Maybe we should get rid of land owner tags while we are at it.

 

[leslea_kate]

I have that tendency hon. It's one thing to WANT to work, only to be slammed down hard every time you try. I have my class 1 & did some driving for a friend a few years ago to help out (I was staying rent-free at his house, so I considered a few weeks driving a fair trade). I had been feeling pretty decent & I did drive pretty decently for a couple weeks...

But then my hands went bad... After driving for about 5 hours, which isn't much in a big rig, my paws started to hurt... This was at the east side of Spokane Washington... By the time I got to the west side of Spokane, by way of the freeway, it was all I could do to pull over, my hands had literally doubled in size I I was trying desperately to see through the tears of pain, as I looked for a safe place to pull over. Suffice to say, my driving partner was stunned when he saw my hands & he went from "why are we pulling over" to "oh my god, how can you STAND it!?" in about 5 seconds. I couldn't do anything for a week, past the basic bathroom needs... And even those HURT like a sonofagun.

Consider he was the one tarping, strapping & doing all the paperwork...

As to your point of the deadwood, YES, it would be a great idea to nix the deadwood... Those SOBs give all people on AISH & the like, a bad name.

So no... It's not like the bus pass issue, lol! Though to be honest, I HATE the bus... I'd rather ride my bike even with my hands hurting, than ride the bus... Which says a LOT as to how much I despise public transportation.

L

Wow, bad deal.
You do put things into a different prespective, particularily for those like myself that don't see the people with severe disabilities, but do have to deal with those that abuse the system. Can you imagine how well funded people with REAL disabilities would be if we could get rid of the deadwood that absorbs the majority of the funding?
In a case such as yours, the program certainly has merit, and it sounds like it's being well policed from the government side. When I first heard about this I thought it would be like the bus passes that Saskatchewan tax payers hand out to welfare recipients for 10% of value.
My mistake.

 

[leslea_kate]

First, good on you for helping the guy with his test. In the military, I knew a guy who was dyslexic & failing basic, as he couldn't read the tests... When I got pissed & told him to ASK for an oral test & why, in private to the platoon Master bomber, he did several orally... & excelled beyond everyone's expectations but mine. I KNEW he had the brains to do well.

As for abusing this... If it's hunting for meat, I know that I for one, don't look at the horns. I look at the body & how big & muscular it is. More muscles = more meals. Last thing I look for when hunting, is a trophy. It's a full freezer I seek!

What's this about land owner tags?? Never heard of em.

L

<snip>
I know there are the abusers but this is Alberta not Eastern Canada, it is a lot harder to scam the system here. I have NEVER heard of someone taking a trophy off this tag or ever heard of anyone getting one when they don't really qualify. Have you?

Maybe we should get rid of land owner tags while we are at it.

 

[grinrgrn]

Unbeleivable amount of whining on this thread?Give yer heads a shake,this isn't about trophy hunting or free passes for lazy bastards,or spending welfare checks on drugs and booze while the kids go hungry.I would assume that the people that this is intended for likeky wouldn't have a vehicle in many cases to worry about how much gas they burn?It's more for rural and/or remote area dwellers that shoot game in the backyard or thereabouts.Basically,just legalising what these "hillbillies" do anyhow.Damn sure if my kids were hungry and I had no means of income,there'd be a few less deer in my back yard,and it wouldn't cost me anymore than the price of few rifle cartridges and a some freezer bags.To alot of poor families,a moose in the freezer is simply a way of life and it'd be a damn long,cold winter without it.

What's the alternative?Prosecute some poor bastard who can't afford a decent defense or the fines/jail time that go with it and drive his family further into the dirt?Let'em eat for chrissakes!

 

[Foxer]

What's the alternative?Prosecute some poor bastard who can't afford a decent defense or the fines/jail time that go with it and drive his family further into the dirt?Let'em eat for chrissakes!

Yeah. gotta agree. If they have access to wild game, and they're in need, let 'em take it legally instead of forcing them to by cow at the store. Enough with the 'let them eat steak' attitude.

 

[crazy_davey]

When I got pissed & told him to ASK for an oral test & why, in private to the platoon Master bomber, he did several orally... & excelled beyond everyone's expectations but mine.

Many a private got through basic by doing an oral . Just kidding of course...

I look at the body & how big & muscular it is. More muscles = more meals.

More muscles = tough as shoe leather. Hunting for meat to eat is not the same as picking a guy up at the bar

 

[walksalot]

Until one has walked in the shoes of a person down on his/her luck we can't make a realistic comment. If my family was hungry you can bet I would shoot an animal out of season if need be. A little meat to flavor the tatters should not be denied to anyone.

 

[riden]

Good points made here RECENTLY.

Way too much "If I can't, you can't either on this thread"

We all don't live in urban areas guys, open your eyes.

On another note, some areas are overrun with deer. Where I hunt mulies, a landowner told me his neighbor, who works in town, had hit 4 deer since Sept (she is a school secretary).

Flame away, if I were in the same situation, I would be popping them by the dozen before I risk my wife's safety.

Bottom line, there are areas where populations must be reduced.

 

[leslea_kate]

Groaner...

As for the shoe leather... Hamburger goes a LOOONG way & ain't that tough

Especially when you think leftover spaghetti & the like.

L

Many a private got through basic by doing an oral . Just kidding of course...

More muscles = tough as shoe leather. Hunting for meat to eat is not the same as picking a guy up at the bar

 

[leslea_kate]

Exactly. And if folks subsistence hunting are able to hunt in such areas, all the power to them.

L

Good points made here RECENTLY.

Way too much "If I can't, you can't either on this thread"

We all don't live in urban areas guys, open your eyes.

On another note, some areas are overrun with deer. Where I hunt mulies, a landowner told me his neighbor, who works in town, had hit 4 deer since Sept (she is a school secretary).

Flame away, if I were in the same situation, I would be popping them by the dozen before I risk my wife's safety.

Bottom line, there are areas where populations must be reduced.

 

[whammy]

Unbeleivable amount of whining on this thread?Give yer heads a shake,this isn't about trophy hunting or free passes for lazy bastards,or spending welfare checks on drugs and booze while the kids go hungry.I would assume that the people that this is intended for likeky wouldn't have a vehicle in many cases to worry about how much gas they burn?It's more for rural and/or remote area dwellers that shoot game in the backyard or thereabouts.Basically,just legalising what these "hillbillies" do anyhow.Damn sure if my kids were hungry and I had no means of income,there'd be a few less deer in my back yard,and it wouldn't cost me anymore than the price of few rifle cartridges and a some freezer bags.To alot of poor families,a moose in the freezer is simply a way of life and it'd be a damn long,cold winter without it.

What's the alternative?Prosecute some poor bastard who can't afford a decent defense or the fines/jail time that go with it and drive his family further into the dirt?Let'em eat for chrissakes!

I agree, but in that case what is the issue with having to turn in the head to a fish cop? I just don't trust human kind enough I guess.

 

[ponts]

For the money it takes to administer this program like paying gov't employees to verify your "story" on why you are special...verifying with doctors and rev canada (income), issue tags, register your kill, CO to monitor hunters it will cost 1000's of tax payer dollars. I would rather have gov't give food stamps at least you are GUARANTIED to eat!!!! Not so with hunting.

Just wait till your favorite honey hole gets invaded by one of these guys right before your season and rogers your bush and takes out your trophy that you have spent months of your time on and thousands of your dollars. Will you think it is a such a great f**kin idea then???

Oh and for those that live and hunt in Alberta that think this is a "great" idea why don't you post directions/coords to your favorite hunting spot that is teaming with game to help those in need? Then I'll FAX it to all the AB Fish & Wildlife offices asking to give the coords to all the "Subsistance Hunters". That way you can give back to those in need.

Here are directions to mine. Go North on HWY "not a ####in' chance" for 100 miles then east on HWY "Sustenance" for 50 miles and that should take you right to my favorite spot Zippermouth creek.