Sustenance Hunting in AB

[riden]

still waiting for the gps co-ords....

Santa is bringing me a GPS

My land location is NW 36 104-16-west of the 5th

I have mule deer, white tail, bears, and oodles of cow moose.

I have never said no to anyone asking permission.


And my comment about food stamps was a nice way of saying, I don't think you know what you are talking about.

 

[ponts]

Santa is bringing me a GPS

My land location is NW 36 104-16-west of the 5th

I have mule deer, white tail, bears, and oodles of cow moose.

I have never said no to anyone asking permission.


And my comment about food stamps was a nice way of saying, I don't think you know what you are talking about.

Perfect thanks............yeah well same goes pal and Merry Christmas.

 

[trevj]

Ponts,

If any deer you ever shot,(or was shot by someone else) cost you months of your life and thousands of dollars, you were either doing really badly afield, or you were trying to free-range farm the deer like some of the slobs in the states do. Dumping supplements and planting forage crops for them costs time and money. I cannot envision any other way that a potential trophy would "cost" you that, unless that was your method. You might as well teach the deer to eat apples out of your hands, for the hunting experience that provides, in my opinion.
If there is another way to spend the months and thousands combo to potentially get a trophy, please do explain. I do not mean this as an attack on you, but you seem to have missed a lot of the point of this program.
Deer are fickle things. Bucks especially. Here today, somewhere else chasing some tail tomorrow. You cant get worked up just because some guy that had no clue what he was doing might just happen to be in the right place at the right time. You don't own it till you have shot it! Even if it IS on your food plot!


From my perspective, this program will allow those that are in the position (location, economic requirement, etc) to benefit from it, to do so legally. It already happens and has been going on for years. Those that can demonstrate need, can go out and harvest without having to do it on the quiet. It's not like they would be bragging to their friends that they felt the need to go and apply for what is effectively another form of welfare. They will not have to put their family further at risk by breaking yet another law to get by.

Deer have been tripping and falling into freezers around the country for ever. Since there were freezers, anyways!
I knew one fellow on Vancouver Island that fed his family on deer that were quietly shot in the roadside ditches, for many years. It's not like there was a shortage of the animals, and the meat was definitely not wasted!

I do not see this affecting the city folks so much. They, in a general sense, are not really going to be able to put in the time or have the access that the folks that live out in the sticks will have, nor will the economics work out so well for them, if they do not already have the gear or know-how. There will be a pile of exceptions to this, but I see this having more of a benefit in areas that are a little further from the so called "Alberta Advantage" fallout.

Take a look at 54-39-05.31N, 110-12-51.6W If you look around from there you should find a pretty useable treestand, and lots of opportunities. Lot's of big tracks there this year. Gonna hunt there again next year maybe. If I run into anyone out there, I'll ask if you sent them, Eh?

It's a big old planet. Lots of room for all to hunt. More deer and fewer hunters than ever, too!

Cheers
Trev

 

[AOWM]

I feel that i need game meat for my health...
Doubt the gov't would agree though.

Get a doctor to agree with you in writing...

 

[ponts]

Ponts,

If any deer you ever shot,(or was shot by someone else) cost you months of your life and thousands of dollars, you were either doing really badly afield, or you were trying to free-range farm the deer like some of the slobs in the states do. Dumping supplements and planting forage crops for them costs time and money. I cannot envision any other way that a potential trophy would "cost" you that, unless that was your method. You might as well teach the deer to eat apples out of your hands, for the hunting experience that provides, in my opinion.
If there is another way to spend the months and thousands combo to potentially get a trophy, please do explain. I do not mean this as an attack on you, but you seem to have missed a lot of the point of this program.
Deer are fickle things. Bucks especially. Here today, somewhere else chasing some tail tomorrow. You cant get worked up just because some guy that had no clue what he was doing might just happen to be in the right place at the right time. You don't own it till you have shot it! Even if it IS on your food plot!


From my perspective, this program will allow those that are in the position (location, economic requirement, etc) to benefit from it, to do so legally. It already happens and has been going on for years. Those that can demonstrate need, can go out and harvest without having to do it on the quiet. It's not like they would be bragging to their friends that they felt the need to go and apply for what is effectively another form of welfare. They will not have to put their family further at risk by breaking yet another law to get by.

Deer have been tripping and falling into freezers around the country for ever. Since there were freezers, anyways!
I knew one fellow on Vancouver Island that fed his family on deer that were quietly shot in the roadside ditches, for many years. It's not like there was a shortage of the animals, and the meat was definitely not wasted!

I do not see this affecting the city folks so much. They, in a general sense, are not really going to be able to put in the time or have the access that the folks that live out in the sticks will have, nor will the economics work out so well for them, if they do not already have the gear or know-how. There will be a pile of exceptions to this, but I see this having more of a benefit in areas that are a little further from the so called "Alberta Advantage" fallout.

Take a look at 54-39-05.31N, 110-12-51.6W If you look around from there you should find a pretty useable treestand, and lots of opportunities. Lot's of big tracks there this year. Gonna hunt there again next year maybe. If I run into anyone out there, I'll ask if you sent them, Eh?

It's a big old planet. Lots of room for all to hunt. More deer and fewer hunters than ever, too!

Cheers
Trev

#1 I DO NOT hunt with a gun and have not hunted with a gun for 15 years. I picked up a bow and never looked back. Do I love guns and do I support rifle hunting YES!!!

#2 Any of you ever bowhunt in zone 248?? cause if you did you would realize how hard it is to get permission and how tough it is to keep it and keep others off. I have hunted exclusively in this zone for 3 years and almost tag out every year. I shot a 147 w/t with my bow and a 40" bull moose this year. Would you want to hunt anywhere else??....it's virtually 15 mins from the city. So no I have no trouble filling tags and a hell of a lot of hunting experience.

#3 Opening Sustenance hunting to other areas besides northern Alberta with this new legislation opens up zone 248 to potentially 1000's of hunters from Edmonton to hunt year round(yes Edmonton has lots of poor people) with permission or not hunt where I do.

#4 I have spent the last 10 years hunting the same patch (50 or so acres)of private land with exclusive permission and I refuse to let a sob story from some 'poor' hunter #### it up. Am I looking forward the possible influx of Subsistance (bow) hunters courting my land owner or showing up in my treestand during the off season ABSOLUTELY NOT.

#5 Bowhunting requires a bigger time investment PERIOD then rifle hunting. I can't jump out of a truck or quad and pick it off from 250 yards. To get close to that trophy requires a lot of time in the stand waiting for the opportunity to come(time off work), equipment (trail cameras, tree stands, camo for all seasons, binos, range finder, calls, scents, gas...I could go on and on) so yes I do spend $1000's. I spend 4 to 5 days a week bowhunting after work for 3 months and I have been doing this for 10 years.

#6 Is there better solutions to feeding poor Albertans yes!! Do foodbanks, shelters, charity organizations exist to do this? YES! Look into it if you are poor there are many avenues open to you already opening it up for hunting is not going to make even the slightest dent in feeding the poor.

Do you get it yet??? Please leave your GPS co-ords to your honey hole's so when I catch someone hunting in my spot ANYTIME of the year I will point then your way. Thanks it is much
appreciated.

According to Foxer though a Sustenance hunter takes priority right.....so maybe I should forgo my hunting spot of 10 years and turn it over to a needy families from Edmonton???? WHEN HELL FREEZES OVER!!!

 

[powdergun]

If any of you think that those that would take advantage of this program actually need the meat you are out to lunch. I guarantee that the majority of those who use this are just looking to get in on easy hunting. If I have the cash to hunt I have the cash to eat as well. Is the government going to pay for vehicles gas and ammo. Even if you live rurally or in the bush you have to get around in a vehicle and that costs money. If I had free tags the meat would cost a hell of a lot more than groceries and I don't need to travel more than five mile to get an animal.

When Sask allowed Metis hunting for one year it was a joke. I know personally of guys who lived in 2000 sq ft houses in Saskatoon who went out and hammered deer in the name of subsistance hunting. There is no way governmnet can prevent this abuse if the program is implemented. Remember you are talking about government management and we all know how well they work.

 

[trevj]

#1 I DO NOT hunt with a gun and have not hunted with a gun for 15 years. I picked up a bow and never looked back. Do I love guns and do I support rifle hunting YES!!!

#2 Any of you ever bowhunt in zone 248?? cause if you did you would realize how hard it is to get permission and how tough it is to keep it and keep others off. I have hunted exclusively in this zone for 3 years and almost tag out every year. I shot a 147 w/t with my bow and a 40" bull moose this year. Would you want to hunt anywhere else??....it's virtually 15 mins from the city. So no I have no trouble filling tags and a hell of a lot of hunting experience.

#3 Opening Sustenance hunting to other areas besides northern Alberta with this new legislation opens up zone 248 to potentially 1000's of hunters from Edmonton (yes Edmonton has lots of poor people).

#4 I have spent the last 10 years hunting the same patch (50 or so acres)of private land with exclusive permission. Am I looking forward the possible influx of Subsistance (bow) hunters courting my land owner or showing up in my treestand during the off season ABSOLUTELY NOT.

#5 Bowhunting requires a bigger time investment PERIOD then rifle hunting. To get close to that trophy requires a lot of time (time of work), equipment (trail cameras, tree stands, camo for all seasons, binos, range finder, calls, scents, I could go on and on) so yes I do spend $1000's. I spend 4 to 5 days a week bowhunting after work for 3 months

Do you get it yet??? Please leave your GPS co-ords to your honey hole's so when I catch someone hunting in my spot ANYTIME of the year I will point then your way. Thanks it is much appreciated.

So far all you have done is whinged.

If Joe Average cannot get permission to hunt there in the season, do you really think the whole subsistance hunting thing is gonna change anything for you? Really?
Keerriyst! You are going on and on about how much impact this will have on YOUR hunting spot, when it will have none at all, in the end. Either the landowner and yourself have an agreement, or you do not. If it is not your land, he can decide whatever he wants to do with it, and can allow whomever he wishes upon it. It is his decision.

There are no provisions that I have heard of, that will require any landowner to allow access to private land. So I guess you better ante up a better Christmas present for him, eh!
Still illegal here to lease land for hunting rights?

You really are coming off as what the Brits would call a Wanker!

Doing a lot of over something that has not and will not affect you. Recall the "sole access " arrangement you wrote of...

Seems to me you are crying the blues about things that have not affected you, but have hurt your feelings because stuff "might" happen.

Do something more useful. Take a poor kid out bowhunting! You both might get something from it.
That seems like something that you probably would'nt do, though. Might add to the competition for a spot in line for the next trophy.


Cheers
Trev

 

[ponts]

If any of you think that those that would take advantage of this program actually need the meat you are out to lunch. I guarantee that the majority of those who use this are just looking to get in on easy hunting. If I have the cash to hunt I have the cash to eat as well. Is the government going to pay for vehicles gas and ammo. Even if you live rurally or in the bush you have to get around in a vehicle and that costs money. If I had free tags the meat would cost a hell of a lot more than groceries and I don't need to travel more than five mile to get an animal.

When Sask allowed Metis hunting for one year it was a joke. I know personally of guys who lived in 2000 sq ft houses in Saskatoon who went out and hammered deer in the name of subsistance hunting. There is no way governmnet can prevent this abuse if the program is implemented. Remember you are talking about government management and we all know how well they work.

thank you!!!

 

[AOWM]

My 2cents just look at my avatar to see what happens when big game is overpopulated and human pressure is the last thing on their mind. When said animals are mangled is such a fashion they are nothing but bird food what a waste I say let those in need help themselves to some food and potentialy help improve road/driving conditions for me.

 

[ponts]

So far all you have done is whinged.

If Joe Average cannot get permission to hunt there in the season, do you really think the whole subsistance hunting thing is gonna change anything for you? Really?
Keerriyst! You are going on and on about how much impact this will have on YOUR hunting spot, when it will have none at all, in the end. Either the landowner and yourself have an agreement, or you do not. If it is not your land, he can decide whatever he wants to do with it, and can allow whomever he wishes upon it. It is his decision.

There are no provisions that I have heard of, that will require any landowner to allow access to private land. So I guess you better ante up a better Christmas present for him, eh!
Still illegal here to lease land for hunting rights?

You really are coming off as what the Brits would call a Wanker!

Doing a lot of over something that has not and will not affect you. Recall the "sole access " arrangement you wrote of...

Seems to me you are crying the blues about things that have not affected you, but have hurt your feelings because stuff "might" happen.

Do something more useful. Take a poor kid out bowhunting! You both might get something from it.
That seems like something that you probably would'nt do, though. Might add to the competition for a spot in line for the next trophy.


Cheers
Trev

It's called trespassing and many hunters do it. Never ran into a trespasser before?? So you are saying it's not possible that it would effect me and where I hunt give your head a shake. Killing any trophy deer within a 5 mile radius during the off season by a "subsistance hunter could affect me" You can have exclusive permission and still have big problems. Oh and try to be civil I could do without the insults buddy.

 

[trevj]

It's called trespassing and many hunters do it. Never ran into a trespasser before?? So you are saying it's not possible that it would effect me and where I hunt give your head a shake. Killing any trophy deer within a 5 mile radius during the off season by a "subsistance hunter could affect me" You can have exclusive permission and still have big problems. Oh and try to be civil I could do without the insults buddy.

Of course its possible!

It's also still trespassing. If you feel that way about trespassing Yobs, I am sure that the local landowners would very much appreciate your spending all your free time out there watching over THEIR land for them. Free security service. Who can argue with that.
I don't suppose any effort you put in would stop the neighbor from letting his brother-in-law come out and whack the big buck that has been running back and forth across his land, though, do you?

I have met a few guys hunting on land that I had permission to be on, that I knew were not so blessed. They were informed. They departed. <shrug> Happens.

It never caused me any worry that they might take a deer that I wanted, because a) there are other deer, and b) they are not my deer, until I catch them!

I'm not your buddy!

My buddy's are all pretty open about where they are hunting, and don't mind sharing!
They understand that the only way to prevent someone else shooting a trophy in their area, is to get it first, fair and square.

They all understand that they do not own any of the deer.

And they understand that sometimes, life just isn't fair. But they don't pout about it.

And they don't do much over stuff that may or may not affect them.

Face it. We might get to know each other, and actually become friends, but I think we are of different minds about some of the fundamental reasons I go hunting, so, maybe not.
I enjoy taking people out and hooking them up with a deer, if I can. I am not chintzy about sharing what I do know. Even if I don't know much. If another guy asks me what I have seen, and where, I tell him. He may well be the guy that puts ME onto something good!

You should buy that 50 acres. At least then, you will be worrying over something that is yours.

Cheers
Trev

 

[riden]

WOW

That is really weak Ponts.

It's called trespassing and many hunters do it. Never ran into a trespasser before??

They can poach and tresspass anytime, what difference does this legislation have on that?

So you are saying it's not possible that it would effect me and where I hunt give your head a shake. Killing any trophy deer within a 5 mile radius during the off season by a "subsistance hunter could affect me"

Apart from the self centredness this argument reeks off, there are hundreds of other factors at play too: accidents, wolves, dogs, poachers, etc. It's hunting, you can't control these things. What is your point???

You can have exclusive permission and still have big problems. Oh and try to be civil I could do without the insults buddy.

It's pretty tough, you are really coming off as bigoted to me.

 

[riden]

If any of you think that those that would take advantage of this program actually need the meat you are out to lunch. I guarantee that the majority of those who use this are just looking to get in on easy hunting. If I have the cash to hunt I have the cash to eat as well. Is the government going to pay for vehicles gas and ammo. Even if you live rurally or in the bush you have to get around in a vehicle and that costs money. If I had free tags the meat would cost a hell of a lot more than groceries and I don't need to travel more than five mile to get an animal.
When Sask allowed Metis hunting for one year it was a joke. I know personally of guys who lived in 2000 sq ft houses in Saskatoon who went out and hammered deer in the name of subsistance hunting. There is no way governmnet can prevent this abuse if the program is implemented. Remember you are talking about government management and we all know how well they work.

How is that possible?

People will always try to take advantage of every government program, but you can't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

 

[walksalot]

If you were hungry and needed to feed your family I would not only give you the gps co-ordinates of my tree stands I would lead you and wait to hear the sound of a successful hunt and help you drag the animal out of the bush.

That I very much agree with!!!! If you have extra then be charitable!!

Would you have a family in need wait for food while you decide whether or not your freezer is to full?

 

[trevj]

"I have spent the last 10 years hunting the same patch (50 or so acres)of private land with exclusive permission and I refuse to let a sob story from some 'poor' hunter f**k it up. Am I looking forward the possible influx of Subsistance (bow) hunters courting my land owner or showing up in my treestand during the off season ABSOLUTELY NOT."

"...I could go on and on) so yes I do spend $1000's. I spend 4 to 5 days a week bowhunting after work for 3 months and I have been doing this for 10 years. "


..so maybe I should forgo my hunting spot of 10 years and turn it over to a needy families from Edmonton???? WHEN HELL FREEZES OVER!!!

" If you have extra then be charitable!!"

Have you thought of writing for TV? That's pure gold!

Really paints a picture, doesn't it?

Cheers
Trev

 

[leslea_kate]

When I lived in Edmonton, had no transportation other than by foot or bus & was freshly mucked up to the point I couldn't work, I hit the food bank fairly regularly for a while...

And I'll tell you all, when in that situation, a moose roast or package of hamburger is VERY appreciated!

Now that I'm in a more rural area, have a bike & can get around better & hunt on good days, I donate my previous year's leftovers when the new stuff is hanging in the garage, to folks who were in the same situation I was in a few years ago. They appreciate it! I know I did.

L

In Alberta you can also donate wild game (taken under you own regular every day tag) to the food bank. It only applies to certain zones at certain times of year and the animal must be freshly killed. I have done it before. It's no skin of my balls to drop a doe and hand it in. I was once told it goes to the soup kitchens in the city's????

I don't think to many people are against that are they? I hope not.

 

[leslea_kate]

Actually no, not out to lunch here. On AISH, handicapped enough to not be able to work, BUT able to talk the BIL into donating the truck, the gas & the effort to help clean & butcher the animal. According to the gal I talked to at fish & wildlife, I only have to be able to shoot the animal... THAT'S IT. Additionally, YES, I DO need the meat I shoot. When it comes to spending the $10 for a box of ammo (my sis gets it for me at cost, sometimes as a GIFT, meaning NO cost to me, hint hint), taking say 5 shots for 2 to 3 deer TOPS, means meat for the year.

If you think hunting is easy, maybe you just need more experience actually HITTING the deer Shooting is the easy part. The WORK starts after the bang.

AKA you're REALLY stretching things to assume that people who look for these tags, are spending the big bucks. IF I decide to go for it, rather than saving up for my tags, I can guarantee that it doesn't cost me more than a weekend housesitting for my friends or family, to recompense their outlay of gas & effort helping out.

BUT that's a point I notice a LOT of the naysayers crying foul over. Expense. Hunting DOESN'T have to be expensive, despite what some folks assume.

Oh & I'm NOT metis and I don't live in a huge house... Just so you don't make too many assumptions.

As far as the hunting goes... I hunt for meat. I try to only shoot as many deer as I need to get through the year to the following hunting season. Nothing more, nothing less.

Just so you know, not everyone that CAN apply for this program does, and not everyone who does, is going to abuse it. Assuming that everyone applying WILL abuse it, is insulting to HUNTERS... As even low income folks who hunt, are HUNTERS FIRST.

Think about it please. The attitude I've seen from the "anti's" on this issue, is so far out of line & insulting, it's not even funny. Whether I hunt on a regular tag or a subsistence one, what matters is that I'm STILL a hunter.

And that point is one I've yet to see those who are against the idea, even concede to.

L

If any of you think that those that would take advantage of this program actually need the meat you are out to lunch. I guarantee that the majority of those who use this are just looking to get in on easy hunting. If I have the cash to hunt I have the cash to eat as well. Is the government going to pay for vehicles gas and ammo. Even if you live rurally or in the bush you have to get around in a vehicle and that costs money. If I had free tags the meat would cost a hell of a lot more than groceries and I don't need to travel more than five mile to get an animal.

When Sask allowed Metis hunting for one year it was a joke. I know personally of guys who lived in 2000 sq ft houses in Saskatoon who went out and hammered deer in the name of subsistance hunting. There is no way governmnet can prevent this abuse if the program is implemented. Remember you are talking about government management and we all know how well they work.

 

[leslea_kate]

NO, it's called trespassing and POACHERS do it. NOT hunters. Subtle but VERY significant difference hon.

Sure a POACHER could affect you (notice the difference... effect, affect... Look em up, it's a pet peeve ), BUT so what if a subsistence hunter hunts in the same area as you? IF that person is a HUNTER, he or she HAS PERMISSION to hunt there. They've gone out of their way to ask. If you have "exclusive permission" then they won't get permission to hunt where you do, therefore NO ISSUE.

Either way, it's NOT your place to cry foul simply because there's another hunter in the woods. Further, I'm going to guess your hunting spot isn't Alberta wide, from the 49th to the 60th, for your "exclusive use"... AKA the likelihood of a subsistence hunter being within 40 miles of "your spot" is as likely as finding a needle in a hay barn, let alone a mere stack!

Talk about making mountains of molehills!

Damn... And people complain when *I'M* on the rag!

L

It's called trespassing and many hunters do it. Never ran into a trespasser before?? So you are saying it's not possible that it would effect me and where I hunt give your head a shake. Killing any trophy deer within a 5 mile radius during the off season by a "subsistance hunter could affect me" You can have exclusive permission and still have big problems. Oh and try to be civil I could do without the insults buddy.

 

[ponts]

Comments deleted by mods:

I guess sustenance hunting is the answer to feeding the poor then. I had no idea the answer was so simple to solving hunger. Maybe we should all turn our meat in to the needy and turn our spots over to those in need. After all it is Canada......ahhh Socialism at it's best!!! I guess you are not as generous as the other socialists in this thread that will turn over there spots to those in need.

Oh and thanks for your kind words......can't think of anything better to say then calling me down??? All the best!!!

 

[Salty]

Gee pontsky. You're first come back was kind of polite. You've edited it to a little mean there. Are you angry?