Sustenance Hunting in AB

Gee pontsky. You're first come back was kind of polite. You've edited it to a little mean there. Are you angry?

Nope not at all :)

I just aboslutely KNOW without a doubt opening up Sustenance hunting to the entire province will not make even the smallest dent in feeding the poor in our province and anyone who thinks it will is incredibly naive and narrow minded on the issue.
 
I'm going to bet you've heard the saying "give a man a fish, he eats for a day, teach him to fish and he eats for a lifetime"... So YES. Sustenance hunting CAN help feed the poor. One doesn't need a rifle that costs thousands of dollars, nor knives that cost half a month's salary. One doesn't need a $40 000 SUV nor do they need to spend a fortune in fuel to hunt cheaply. I noticed you didn't respond to my remarks... I'm guessing common sense has little to do with your adamant dislike of even the notion of sustenance hunting though.

As I said before, I'm one who could probably qualify. My deer this year, beyond the cost of tags, cost me 4 bullets (3 for my deer & one for a friend's, as I was first to the kill, for where it fell). And lunch. That's it. The meat I got from the deer will feed me for a year. So yeah, it DOES make sense to me & the complaints you've quoted so far hold less water than my spaghetti colander.

Why you insist on going to the irrational extreme of assuming that handing your meat to a poor person is somehow better than them going out for their own, is a logic that escapes me entirely. Either that, you you completely ignore the repeated notes from several of the folks here, mentioning how a person hunting for their own food, is MORE valid, than charity from others.

Socialism? That's the BEST you have??? COME ON. This isn't about socialism. It's about people being given a chance, JUST a CHANCE (aka it's NOT a sure thing, not all hunters are GOOD hunters) at feeding themselves... It's NOT about YOUR rights being taken away. It's about the poor given a chance to give themselves a hand UP, rather than a hand OUT. Or maybe THAT part escapes you too? If so, you're in much darker a place than even I thought you'd be... And if it's the case, you have my pity... As it's all you deserve IMHO. No flame hon. Just honesty. The inability to have compassion for those less well off than you, and their attempts to better their lives, shouldn't be a reason to treat them poorly.

Oh & no one's called YOU down. They've called your opinion, questionable. Strange even. Misguided & possibly a bit extreme. That's NOT the same as calling YOU those things. YOU can grow. IF you allow yourself to.

But that's probably a bit too "good will toward man" or maybe a bit too "it's a wonderful life" for you to accept. My bet is you'll just call me a damn liberal & dismiss what I say, regardless of the intent.

Good luck Ponts. I hope you can get past the hate on you're displaying toward those less fortunate than yourself.

Leslea


I guess sustenance hunting is the answer to feeding the poor then. I had no idea the answer was so simple to solving hunger. Maybe we should all turn our meat in to the needy and turn our spots over to those in need. After all it is Canada......ahhh Socialism at it's best!!! I guess you are not as generous as the other socialists in this thread that will turn over there spots to those in need.

Oh and thanks for your kind words......can't think of anything better to say then calling me down??? All the best!!!
 
On the contrary. If the smallest dent, is ONE person, then it WILL benefit.

It's just not a solution to all. And for those who have an All or Nothing POV, of course no matter what's suggested, it'll fail.

L


Nope not at all :)

I just aboslutely KNOW without a doubt opening up Sustenance hunting to the entire province will not make even the smallest dent in feeding the poor in our province and anyone who thinks it will is incredibly naive and narrow minded on the issue.
 
In all of this argueing there are two major issues.

1) Providing food for those in need.
This can be accomplished in a far better manner such as donation of wild meat or direct financial support from the government .

2) Protection of the wildlife population. There may seem to be a healthy population now but a few bad winters or disease can change that drastically. If the numbers take a big hit it would be pretty hard to call back all the sustenance hunters and the result would be disatrous. Case in point the Sask government opened pronghorn hunting to anyone and not a draw system. In one year the population was trashed and it took over a decade to even start to recover. They tried to blame it on coyotes but that is BS it was over hunting pure and simple.

The cost of wild game taken by hunting is expensive. For example a big deer will provide perhaps 70 lbs of deboned lean meat. If you are lucky to take it on your first trip out its not too bad but that isn't always the case. Fuel, vehicle wear and tear,ammo etc. put the price at over $2/lb. If you have to travel a fair distance and set up camp even if you are after elk or moose the cost per pound of meat is high.

Using the feeding the poor arguement in this type of program makes no sense from a financial standpoint. We all have the right to hunt but it must be managed in a way that protects the game first and foremost. Using hunting to solve a social issue like poverty is a recipe for disaster. This plan is a politically motivated scheme that has nothing to do with helping people.

We all have the right to hunt and I believe in sharing but if I've spent years cultivating contacts and scouting areas. I'd be a little pissed to have someone else just walking in and helping themselves. Share what you know and work with other hunters but in this game you've got to pay dues and wear out a few pairs of boots.
 
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I'm going to bet you've heard the saying "give a man a fish, he eats for a day, teach him to fish and he eats for a lifetime"... So YES. Sustenance hunting CAN help feed the poor. One doesn't need a rifle that costs thousands of dollars, nor knives that cost half a month's salary. One doesn't need a $40 000 SUV nor do they need to spend a fortune in fuel to hunt cheaply. I noticed you didn't respond to my remarks... I'm guessing common sense has little to do with your adamant dislike of even the notion of sustenance hunting though.

As I said before, I'm one who could probably qualify. My deer this year, beyond the cost of tags, cost me 4 bullets (3 for my deer & one for a friend's, as I was first to the kill, for where it fell). And lunch. That's it. The meat I got from the deer will feed me for a year. So yeah, it DOES make sense to me & the complaints you've quoted so far hold less water than my spaghetti colander.

Why you insist on going to the irrational extreme of assuming that handing your meat to a poor person is somehow better than them going out for their own, is a logic that escapes me entirely. Either that, you you completely ignore the repeated notes from several of the folks here, mentioning how a person hunting for their own food, is MORE valid, than charity from others.

Socialism? That's the BEST you have??? COME ON. This isn't about socialism. It's about people being given a chance, JUST a CHANCE (aka it's NOT a sure thing, not all hunters are GOOD hunters) at feeding themselves... It's NOT about YOUR rights being taken away. It's about the poor given a chance to give themselves a hand UP, rather than a hand OUT. Or maybe THAT part escapes you too? If so, you're in much darker a place than even I thought you'd be... And if it's the case, you have my pity... As it's all you deserve IMHO. No flame hon. Just honesty. The inability to have compassion for those less well off than you, and their attempts to better their lives, shouldn't be a reason to treat them poorly.

Oh & no one's called YOU down. They've called your opinion, questionable. Strange even. Misguided & possibly a bit extreme. That's NOT the same as calling YOU those things. YOU can grow. IF you allow yourself to.

But that's probably a bit too "good will toward man" or maybe a bit too "it's a wonderful life" for you to accept. My bet is you'll just call me a damn liberal & dismiss what I say, regardless of the intent.

Good luck Ponts. I hope you can get past the hate on you're displaying toward those less fortunate than yourself.

Leslea

You absolutely have no idea who I am or what I'm about. Don't make assumptions based on me not agreeing with opening up sustenance hunting where I hunt. Hey I pay taxes and guess what Welfare, Employment Insurance and every other gov't program for those in need gets taken of my check in the form of Fed and Prov income tax. So YES I contribute to the poor everytime I get paid. As I have stated in previous posts, the money it takes to administer this program should be given to people in need in the form of Gov't food vouchers. That is Guarantied food not just a chance at it. I've said my peace think what ever the hell you want don't really care. If you need a place to sustenence hunt I'm sure someone other then me on this board can help you out.
 
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So is this a case of this could possibly mess with my space so don't let the poor people shoot deer that I might have a chance at? Maybe you should go by the beef ponsky.
 
Why is it better to give a person meat, than allow him or her to hunt it for themselves? Doing so, takes away the modicum of pride the low income person gains, by supplying their own meat. For those who don't or can't hunt, YES, it's a great idea, but for those who can, what's the real harm, provided they're hunting in an area where they're helping manage excessive herd levels?

and for point 2, what makes you think these folks aren't required to hunt specific species, in areas where those species are at too high a population, due to the lack of hunters & severe winters? Like ANY tag hunt, it only makes sense that these folks be required to hunt in areas where the populations need managing.

Further, NOT every person who COULD qualify, will apply. Nor does every person who COULD qualify under the financial or dietary requirement, have the qualifications TO hunt. AKA not every poor person in the province is going to be blasting out the wilderness at every scrap that moves. AKA the "sky is falling" mentality toward this program is sorely misplaced. Not many people know about it, there are strict guidelines they have to follow to qualify and it's like any other managed hunt, is how it was described to me, by the gal at the Edmonton Fish & Wildlife office when I called yesterday.

AKA treating low income hunters, as anything less than ethical hunters, is rude & uncalled for. Especially given the restrictions and requirements of the program.

What makes you think for an instant that wildlife management ISN'T the first priority??? Neither the article, nor the gal I talked with (and by all means, call em up on Wednesday next week & ask about it if you're REALLY that worried!), indicated that it would be even close to a "free for all" for those who do qualify.

AND again, for the literary impaired... NOT all hunts are expensive. FOR EXAMPLE, once again, My hunt: My BIL or friends out east, help me out by bringing me along on their hunts. AKA NO GAS cost, NO vehicle cost to me, the low income person. My sister GIVES me ammo, or charges me cost, which is at MOST, $10 per box of 20 bullets... SO $10 cost so far... AGAIN, even on several trips, NO COST to me for vehicle use. If I'm kind, which I tend to be with friends, I trade that cost for some housesitting. NO COST TO ME. Still at $10. Get 70 lbs of meat, for say an investment of the whole box of ammo, which allows for some practice rounds & sighting in rounds, that works out to what? 17 to 18 CENTS per pound... That's pretty damn cheap in my book! ESPECIALLY as my friends tend to enjoy the great outdoors & if they can help me out, by trading a bit of time & gas, in exchange for housesitting or puppysitting, everyone wins.

Even when I hunted from my motorcycle, my average hunting trip rarely cost more than a tank of gas... Even adding a pop & sandwich in there, for $25 + ammo at $10, that works out to ONLY 50 cents per pound. Damn cheap, considering the quality IMHO.

Now here's the BIG CLUE IN MOMENT... (yeah, think big booming voice about to bestow a revelation)... The program is NOT designed to feed the poor! NOT REMOTELY! It's so SOME people can get fed. It's NOT meant to feed em all! Only a crazy person would assume it would feed everyone!

AKA it's only for a VERY small number of people, in the overall scheme of things. It helps out a FEW people. That's all it's there for! WHY WORRY??? The number of people who CAN take advantage of the program, CAN'T come close to replacing those hunters who have given up the sport, or who have passed on, leaving fewer & fewer folks out in the bush.

You can think it's politically motivated all you want. I've seen it mentioned in the synopsis for at LEAST the last 3 years though... And it's yet to become a serious burden on the management of the cervid populations.

Oh & as far as "cultivating contacts and scouting areas" goes... WHAT THE HELL do you think these hunters would do? Anything LESS??? Just because they're low income, doesn't mean they're unethical hunters & the insinuation that they would be, is WAY the hell out of line. They STILL require permission. They STILL can't just shoot willy nilly. They STILL have to use ALL the regs that any other hunter uses, with the ONLY exception being of WHEN they can hunt. They STILL have to "pay dues and wear out a few pairs of boots" just like ANY other HUNTER. Hint, these people are HUNTING. NOT POACHING.

Or do you take a position that bowhunters are abusing the system because they get to hunt earlier than rifle hunters too? No? WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE??? They're a SMALL speciality group. EXTREMELY small. And VERY highly regulated.

Again, another person who I'm guessing DIDN'T call the office, making rude & unjustified assumptions. CALL the office, tell them your concerns. ASK HOW MANY get to hunt!

Until you do THAT, you're basically just crying foul for nothing.

L

In all of this argueing there are two major issues.

1) Providing food for those in need.
This can be accomplished in a far better manner such as donation of wild meat or direct financial support from the government .

2) Protection of the wildlife population. There may seem to be a healthy population now but a few bad winters or disease can change that drastically. If the numbers take a big hit it would be pretty hard to call back all the sustenance hunters and the result would be disatrous. Case in point the Sask government opened pronghorn hunting to anyone and not a draw system. In one year the population was trashed and it took over a decade to even start to recover. They tried to blame it on coyotes but that is BS it was over hunting pure and simple.

The cost of wild game taken by hunting is expensive. For example a big deer will provide perhaps 70 lbs of deboned lean meat. If you are lucky to take it on your first trip out its not too bad but that isn't always the case. Fuel, vehicle wear and tear,ammo etc. put the price at over $2/lb. If you have to travel a fair distance and set up camp even if you are after elk or moose the cost per pound of meat is high.

Using the feeding the poor arguement in this type of program makes no sense from a financial standpoint. We all have the right to hunt but it must be managed in a way that protects the game first and foremost. Using hunting to solve a social issue like poverty is a recipe for disaster. This plan is a politically motivated scheme that has nothing to do with helping people.

We all have the right to hunt and I believe in sharing but if I've spent years cultivating contacts and scouting areas. I'd be a little pissed to have someone else just walking in and helping themselves. Share what you know and work with other hunters but in this game you've got to pay dues and wear out a few pairs of boots.
 
Yet you have NO idea who *I* am, yet make assumptions about what *I'm* about... What's wrong with turnabout???

You DON'T have to agree. BUT at least make the call, ask your questions, find out about the program & what the intentions are, BEFORE you go & slam it.

Likewise toward the HUNTERS. Don't assume they're going to be all over in places that can't sustain their incursions. Don't assume they have no ethics or would trespass. It's rude.

You pay taxes... You think I didn't before I was too ill to work? You think MY tax dollars contributing to the economy were somehow LESS important than yours? Get off the high horse. Until YOU walk a mile in MY shoes, you DON'T have the right to complain how I live. Likewise for anyone else on AISH. AISH is NOT welfare. Contrary to your OPINION on the subject.

Why should I take actual welfare in the form of food vouchers, which tend to NOT fill the need for decent quality food, when I'm able to trade a trip into the bush to shoot a deer, for some housesitting, which costs me the price of the bullet, for a deer or elk or moose worth of meat? WHY should *I* accept true welfare, when I have an opportunity to EARN my food, through the generosity of friends who offer transportation & help, for when I cannot do more, thanks to my disability, by shooting an animal to feed myself? WHY should I accept HANDOUTS when I can go and with help, find a legitimate way to make a difference in my life situation, hence leaving more money for things like fresh veggies, rather than being stuck on starch & sugar, for lack of funds? By all means, clarify THAT.

I'm NOT a bad hunter... And when I hunt, I usually get what I hunt for. As such, why should I accept welfare or pity food, when I have a chance at something like an elk or moose? Or even a decent deer?

If anything, your POV and countering it, has convinced me to apply for the sustenance hunting license. They may say no. They may not. Either way, it's worth looking at. As for people on "here" as you so eloquently put it, several have already made it abundantly clear, that they'd be only too happy to help me "drag it out of the bush", thanks...

Here's something to ponder... Many people on these forums dislike the government tendency to coddle people. To manage their every move & choice. What you're essentially saying is that if you're poor, you should accept that. What I say is if there's a chance to go out & fend for myself, even if for a short time & with help for the probability that my hands can only go so far, so I have friends to take up the job when I can't take it farther, I say it's worth going for.

This isn't the government controlling me... This is about the government offering me (and others in tight situations) a bit of extra freedom. My bet is that others see THAT point too. I'm sorry you don't see that.

I guess I'm just not Liberal enough to just accept handouts, when I have the chance to earn a bit of my own way. Even a bit at a time.

Leslea


You absolutely have no idea who I am or what I'm about. Don't make assumptions based on me not agreeing with opening up sustenance hunting where I hunt. Hey I pay taxes and guess what Welfare, Employment Insurance and every other gov't program for those in need gets taken of my check in the form of Fed and Prov income tax. So YES I contribute to the poor everytime I get paid. As I have stated in previous posts, the money it takes to administer this program should be given to people in need in the form of Gov't food vouchers. That is Guarantied food not just a chance at it. I've said my peace think what ever the hell you want don't really care. If you need a place to sustenence hunt I'm sure someone other then me on this board can help you out.
 
Salty - i deleted your post. Waaaay the hell over the top. NO personal insults like that.

If you don't like ponts' argument, you're free to attack the argument, but NOT him.

Seriously - don't make it personal like that.
 
.22 lr round to brain shoot 1 of the several deer at 10 yards that visit my back yard daily------$0.05

Freezer bags to preserve said deer-$1.99

pissing off insecure,trophy hunting city boy that loses sleep worrying that the deer I shot might have someday crossed his 50 acre patch of exclusive hunting dirt-PRICELESS

For everything else....there's welfare:p
 
All of your arguements are solid. If the only difference between sustenance hunters is that some pay for tags and some don't that is no big deal. My oppinion comes from first hand observations from a province that has sustenance hunters all over. We have had problems with over hunting, night hunting, sensless shooting of animals and so on. This has gone on for years and continues today.

If sustenance hunters follow harvest rules or quotas and are ethical no worries but I strongly feel this will not be the case. And as for shooting a deer in my yard with a .22 and putting it in my freezer my friend that is illegal in my province and thats not my cup of tea. We have deer eating apples by the picture window at the farm and I could do the same but breaking the law is not the way to go. If this is legal where you are then no issue.

I hate to sound like the voice of gloom but I have seen too many abuses made by " sustenance hunters " If Alberta can find a way to solve the problems then good on them and please educate our politicians.

And yes there are a few liscensed hunters out there that are just as bad.

BTW: There have been many a country boy I have encoutered that could benefit from a bit of hunter education so don't tag someone as a poor hunter just because he lives in the city. He probably grew up on the farm anyway. Gentlemen and a**holes can be found everywhere.
 
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When I first saw this Thread I thought it was a load of BS especially when I thought it was only a Metis thing. After reading a bit I am actually swayed to thinking this is a good thing. I definately think it needs to be controlled heavily and only for low income families. There should be very heavy peniltys for abuse. If someone is truely in need, I do not see a problem with them shooting an extra animal or two. That extra animal or two could could make the difference in their kids having a Christmas vs. going hungry with nothing under the tree.
 
Powdergun,

I was living in Moose Jaw when the antelope population crashed there.

The answer that was being given when asked, by the biologists, was to look in North Dakota. The antelope did not hang around for the bad winter and it took several years for the animals to migrate back.
Of those few antelope that remained in southern Saskatchewan, the coyote predation took a heavy toll on the young. The coyotes did not cause the crash, nor did hunting. The coyotes slowed the recovery a bit, though, and so did some of the "sustenance" hunters that were around at the time.

It amounted to a bunch of things that no amount of "management" could have changed or foreseen.

The "sustenance" hunters in SK that caused almost all the issues were largely the Metis. A lot of them came in from out of province, and it was an uncontrolled free-for-all. I heard firsthand reports from CO's, telling of guys in the Hudson Bay SK area, with reefer trucks and groups of guys on quads "sustenance" hunting on a 24 hour basis, cleaning out the moose and hauling back to Winnipeg.

From what I have heard, some of the direct results of that experience, brought about the "no discharge of firearms at night" rules, as those were though better able to withstand and constitutional challenge of racial based discriminatory laws, than would something that said "no hunting at night", which could have been argued as standing in the way of "tradition". Bleh!

Allowing sustenance hunting, for Natives, Metis, or the poor, does not bother me. If it is done in control, and with as sound management principles as can be applied.
Allowing a free-for-all, DOES bother me, though.

If there are permits involved, you can bet that means that there are folks counting how many animals are taken, and thus, how many can be reasonably expected to be around for the next years harvest. Given that there are several ways to acquire LOTS of deer tags for the average hunter, and that almost no-one goes home with them all filled each year, I figure the populations are in shape enough to handle a couple dozen more deer dropping off the face of the planet, here and there.

I'd rather the potential next world record end up in the freezer of someone that could really use the food, than on the wall of someone that wanted it solely for the antlers.

The week I left Moose Jaw, in 1999, I was driving down the grids to the South-east of town, and saw a baby antelope taking what had to be it's first steps. That was pretty cool!
There were a buck, a doe, and the kid, out in a field. Those were the first antelope I had seen in the area in about 3 years.

Cheers
Trev
 
Thanks. The way I figure it, is if a person is going though the channels, to get the sustenance hunter license and tags, they're the ones who are going to be no different than any other hunter. Those who poach, pitlamp, hunt where there's an obvious overhunting strain or shoot senselessly, aren't the ones who are looking to take advantage of this program. Those fidiots are going to continue. They're NOT sustenance hunters, they're illegal poachers & SHOULD be caught & charged.

Why wouldn't someone who goes through the hoops, do so only to hunt unethically or illegally?? Once they have legal tags, they should be good to go hunt legitimately. If a person is going to screw the system, they'll do it without ASKING to do it first.

Ultimately, the argument against "sustenance hunters" seems to be coming completely from a place that if you get the tags for a reduced or waived fee, or can hunt in the off season for meat, you can't possibly be a legitimate or ethical hunter... And frankly, it's a false assumption. Poachers are NOT sustenance hunters people. BIG difference.

L

All of your arguements are solid. If the only difference between sustenance hunters is that some pay for tags and some don't that is no big deal. My oppinion comes from first hand observations from a province that has sustenance hunters all over. We have had problems with over hunting, night hunting, sensless shooting of animals and so on. This has gone on for years and continues today.

If sustenance hunters follow harvest rules or quotas and are ethical no worries but I strongly feel this will not be the case. And as for shooting a deer in my yard with a .22 and putting it in my freezer my friend that is illegal in my province and thats not my cup of tea. We have deer eating apples by the picture window at the farm and I could do the same but breaking the law is not the way to go. If this is legal where you are then no issue.

I hate to sound like the voice of gloom but I have seen too many abuses made by " sustenance hunters " If Alberta can find a way to solve the problems then good on them and please educate our politicians.

And yes there are a few liscensed hunters out there that are just as bad.

BTW: There have been many a country boy I have encoutered that could benefit from a bit of hunter education so don't tag someone as a poor hunter just because he lives in the city. He probably grew up on the farm anyway. Gentlemen and a**holes can be found everywhere.
 
And again, pointing out the flaws in the assumptions...

The article didn't say that people would be free to hunt ANYTHING, regardless of the population. I didn't see anything in the article about being allowed to hunt animals with stressed or seriously low populations. I DID see stuff in there about Deer, Elk & moose. NOT Antelope, Goats or Sheep. AKA those who are taking from the low populations of Antelope, are NOT sustenance hunters, they're POACHERS. Why is it that the rather significant difference there is being ignored by the naysayers????

If someone is actually sustenance hunting, they're NOT clearing out the animals in an area. That's abuse & it's BS & NEEDS to stop. Sustenance hunting is for the individual to have meat. If the individual is taking a reefer truck worth of meat, he's selling it, which is illegal last time I checked.

WHY is it people refuse to see the difference between a poacher (regardless of the colour of his or her skin) and a sustenance hunter, who is licenced and has a LIMITED number of tags?

I agree about the whole tradition versus night hunting bit... There's a HUGE difference between someone's great great grand daddy hunting in the bush with a flaming brand & a flintlock (IF that much) and those today who go out with a 4X4, modern hunting rifles and 3 million candle power spotlights to shoot at everything that moves. The difference being one is desperate, the other a poacher by any reasonable, intelligent basis.

I agree that a "free for all" is something NO reasonable hunter wants. My hope is that those who do get sustenance licenses are all reasonable & don't abuse the chance they're given.

Besides, if a person is actually sustenance hunting, for themselves & their family, wouldn't it make sense to go for a deer, elk or moose, in an area where they're plentiful, than to try going after an antelope, which is a rarer animal to find, more difficult to shoot (as I've always seen em as skittish & tend to run like the dickens if you even breathe wrong) and have only a tiny bit of meat compared to the other options?

As for the baby antelope... WAY kewl!

L


Powdergun,

I was living in Moose Jaw when the antelope population crashed there.

The answer that was being given when asked, by the biologists, was to look in North Dakota. The antelope did not hang around for the bad winter and it took several years for the animals to migrate back.
Of those few antelope that remained in southern Saskatchewan, the coyote predation took a heavy toll on the young. The coyotes did not cause the crash, nor did hunting. The coyotes slowed the recovery a bit, though, and so did some of the "sustenance" hunters that were around at the time.

It amounted to a bunch of things that no amount of "management" could have changed or foreseen.

The "sustenance" hunters in SK that caused almost all the issues were largely the Metis. A lot of them came in from out of province, and it was an uncontrolled free-for-all. I heard firsthand reports from CO's, telling of guys in the Hudson Bay SK area, with reefer trucks and groups of guys on quads "sustenance" hunting on a 24 hour basis, cleaning out the moose and hauling back to Winnipeg.

From what I have heard, some of the direct results of that experience, brought about the "no discharge of firearms at night" rules, as those were though better able to withstand and constitutional challenge of racial based discriminatory laws, than would something that said "no hunting at night", which could have been argued as standing in the way of "tradition". Bleh!

Allowing sustenance hunting, for Natives, Metis, or the poor, does not bother me. If it is done in control, and with as sound management principles as can be applied.
Allowing a free-for-all, DOES bother me, though.

If there are permits involved, you can bet that means that there are folks counting how many animals are taken, and thus, how many can be reasonably expected to be around for the next years harvest. Given that there are several ways to acquire LOTS of deer tags for the average hunter, and that almost no-one goes home with them all filled each year, I figure the populations are in shape enough to handle a couple dozen more deer dropping off the face of the planet, here and there.

I'd rather the potential next world record end up in the freezer of someone that could really use the food, than on the wall of someone that wanted it solely for the antlers.

The week I left Moose Jaw, in 1999, I was driving down the grids to the South-east of town, and saw a baby antelope taking what had to be it's first steps. That was pretty cool!
There were a buck, a doe, and the kid, out in a field. Those were the first antelope I had seen in the area in about 3 years.

Cheers
Trev
 
I guess a person has to try to remain optimistic over all of this. All I can say is cross your fingers and hope for the best.
 
When I lived in Edmonton, had no transportation other than by foot or bus & was freshly mucked up to the point I couldn't work, I hit the food bank fairly regularly for a while...

And I'll tell you all, when in that situation, a moose roast or package of hamburger is VERY appreciated!

Now that I'm in a more rural area, have a bike & can get around better & hunt on good days, I donate my previous year's leftovers when the new stuff is hanging in the garage, to folks who were in the same situation I was in a few years ago. They appreciate it! I know I did.

L

leslea_kate, I'd just like to take a moment for a "tip of the hat" to you. After reading your previous posts on this topic, it's obvious that you've been dealt a less than stellar hand as far as health goes. Instead of feeling sorry for yourself, you've found a way to adapt to the limitations imposed on you and simultaneously shown compassion for others. I wish we had more people like you around. :)
 
Helping the poor feed themselves is a fantastic idea.

I would think that many poor people over time have learned to accept charity, but I would bet the farm that there are many poor people with as much dignity as any well paid salary man and prefers to work for his meal rather than have it given to him.

About 10 years after the cod fisheries shut down in NFLD (any Newfs feel free to correct my history) the gov't opened up the cod fishing to a certain # of cod per person (10 I think). The problem was that people who've never been in a boat before wre going out on the water and getting into trouble because they don't have their sea legs or head about them. There was more than one rescue in the onset by the Coast Guard.

The only issue I have with allowing sustenace hunters to hunt in the off seson is making sure that they have the proper safety training. Without it the same safety sort of safety issues that Nfld dealt with would be very real.
 
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