Out of curiosity, how rare - if at all - are two digit serial numbers on SVT40s ? Specifically on an originally 1941 built (but since arsenal refurbished) sample ? Did the Russians approach SVT40 serial numbers sequentially or were they arbitarily (but uniquely) assigned to protect output data ?
SVT40 Query
- Thread starter redivivus
- Start date
Friend, you have asked a really good question. My own SVT is a 1940, has just a 3-digit number, although it also has two letters (both Cyrillic, of course, and so not what they look vaguely like in the Roman alphabet). Does your rifle also have letters after the s/n? Or is it nekkid?
I do have a couple of rifles with 2-digit s/ns, a P-14 which is s/n 305 from Winchester and a PH which is 0019; both of these are extremely early in production. And I know where there is a Mauser which is 2 digits also, this from a turn-of-the-last-century South American contact. It is a first-day-of-production rifle. My P-14 is a 'spec' rifle: one of the first made by Winchester and sent to England for inspection before full production started in the USA. And my Armaguerra 39 is only 2 digits as well: 38...... but they made so few of those that it wasn't even funny.
But MNs...... there already had been close to 20 million built by the time Adolf decided to invade, and wartime production practices in Russia bordered somewhere between desperation and barbarity. I really don't think they had time to come up with secret serial numbers, no matter how much the NKVD would have liked to. Any that I have seen are numbered up to 4 digits, with the letter code afterwards. The letter code is important and it is a valid part of the serial number, and this also holds for SKSs and SVTs. That our Govrnment doesn't even want to know about these things simply shows how utterly flawed the Registry really is.
Letter codes are also used on Lee-Enfields, Rosses, Moisin-Nagants, Mausers, Lugers, P-38s and a whole raft of other firearms. In each case the letter code is significant, important and utterly ignored by the Registry. This is why it is possible to put half a dozen Lugers on the table, all made in different plants and in different years, and all with the 'same' serial number.
Check your rifle for a letter code.
And be sure to have fun with it!
Hope this helps.
.
I do have a couple of rifles with 2-digit s/ns, a P-14 which is s/n 305 from Winchester and a PH which is 0019; both of these are extremely early in production. And I know where there is a Mauser which is 2 digits also, this from a turn-of-the-last-century South American contact. It is a first-day-of-production rifle. My P-14 is a 'spec' rifle: one of the first made by Winchester and sent to England for inspection before full production started in the USA. And my Armaguerra 39 is only 2 digits as well: 38...... but they made so few of those that it wasn't even funny.
But MNs...... there already had been close to 20 million built by the time Adolf decided to invade, and wartime production practices in Russia bordered somewhere between desperation and barbarity. I really don't think they had time to come up with secret serial numbers, no matter how much the NKVD would have liked to. Any that I have seen are numbered up to 4 digits, with the letter code afterwards. The letter code is important and it is a valid part of the serial number, and this also holds for SKSs and SVTs. That our Govrnment doesn't even want to know about these things simply shows how utterly flawed the Registry really is.
Letter codes are also used on Lee-Enfields, Rosses, Moisin-Nagants, Mausers, Lugers, P-38s and a whole raft of other firearms. In each case the letter code is significant, important and utterly ignored by the Registry. This is why it is possible to put half a dozen Lugers on the table, all made in different plants and in different years, and all with the 'same' serial number.
Check your rifle for a letter code.
And be sure to have fun with it!
Hope this helps.
.
smellie: Thx! Your insight certianly adds a lot more clarity into this conundrum.
My serial number is preceded by two two Cyrillic letters that resemble 'RC' and is consistently stamped in all the components. My curiosity stemmed from trying to ascertain if there was a way to figure out a history of this particular firearm and figured that the serial number might be a good place to start to determine unit allocation and the combat experience it may have gained prior to ending up as a weekend shooter.
An interesting collection you have there of rarities!
My serial number is preceded by two two Cyrillic letters that resemble 'RC' and is consistently stamped in all the components. My curiosity stemmed from trying to ascertain if there was a way to figure out a history of this particular firearm and figured that the serial number might be a good place to start to determine unit allocation and the combat experience it may have gained prior to ending up as a weekend shooter.
An interesting collection you have there of rarities!
I don't know if there is a way to find out unit allocations for Russian arms. The only thing I've heard is that any rifle made in Tula in 1941 is likely to have seen action. If there is a way to learn where specific weapons served or were issued I'd love to see it!
Smellie,
I have heard that the WW2 German methhod was to start at number 1, then go to 9999, then start again at 1 followed by a lower case "a" usually stamp below the numbers, as in:
1
a
But to make it even more confusing, each factory had a three letter code, and the whole thing started over each year.
So, the serial number might read"
ayr
1234
b
1943
The ENTIRE sequence has to be listed, or its not complete. Is that your understanding of it also?
Original poster, sorry for the hijack. I'll go check my SVT-40 now and see what it says.
I have heard that the WW2 German methhod was to start at number 1, then go to 9999, then start again at 1 followed by a lower case "a" usually stamp below the numbers, as in:
1
a
But to make it even more confusing, each factory had a three letter code, and the whole thing started over each year.
So, the serial number might read"
ayr
1234
b
1943
The ENTIRE sequence has to be listed, or its not complete. Is that your understanding of it also?
Original poster, sorry for the hijack. I'll go check my SVT-40 now and see what it says.
@ tootall: yes, that's how it was done. You have to have the model, factory, year, serial AND code letter before the job is complete. Model is important: some factories made Lugers, K98s, MG-34s, P-38 and a bunch of other things, all with numbers on the same system. I know, this means that likely 75% of all former military firearms in the Canadian Registry are there with faulty or incomplete registrations through which the specific firearm cannot be identified. I didn't set the system up, honest! I'm just another one of the poor slobs who has been attempting to collect guns while surviving something this silly. The actual system was set up by Government Experts who didn't want the help of mere civilians.
@OP: you say you have a letter code "C" and something that looks like an "R". The Cyrillic alphabet is based more closely on Greek than ours, so some of the things the Romans did to it weren't done..... or were undone..... when Holy Monk Cyril invented his prfect alphabet for the Slavic peoples. In my novel "The Little Red Hawk", retired wizard Sidney the Profound has a few choice remarks to make about it, as does a Rus trader from Kiyiv named Dmitri.
Anyway, there is no "S: in the Cyrilic alphabet..... they use the letter "C" for the "S" sound. So your "C" is really an "S". Is your "R" backwards? What we would call a "backwards R" is the Cyrillic symbol for the diphthong "Ya".
By rights, somebody should put into this forum, possibly as a Sticky, a chart transliterating Roman and Cyrillic. It would help a lot of people.
Hope this helps.
.
@OP: you say you have a letter code "C" and something that looks like an "R". The Cyrillic alphabet is based more closely on Greek than ours, so some of the things the Romans did to it weren't done..... or were undone..... when Holy Monk Cyril invented his prfect alphabet for the Slavic peoples. In my novel "The Little Red Hawk", retired wizard Sidney the Profound has a few choice remarks to make about it, as does a Rus trader from Kiyiv named Dmitri.
Anyway, there is no "S: in the Cyrilic alphabet..... they use the letter "C" for the "S" sound. So your "C" is really an "S". Is your "R" backwards? What we would call a "backwards R" is the Cyrillic symbol for the diphthong "Ya".
By rights, somebody should put into this forum, possibly as a Sticky, a chart transliterating Roman and Cyrillic. It would help a lot of people.
Hope this helps.
.
Last edited:
Found this link that might be of assitance in relating Cyrillic characters to Roman: http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinCyrillic.htm
smellie: From your post I gather you wrote a novel ? Is it in circualtion ? Any info on how does one go about securing one ? Oh, and yes, it is a reverse 'R'.
smellie: From your post I gather you wrote a novel ? Is it in circualtion ? Any info on how does one go about securing one ? Oh, and yes, it is a reverse 'R'.
