Swan Hills AB - Stop Shooting Does

A well managed game herd is healthy...
American studies have show my statement to be true, but as always there are exceptions to the norm.
There is someone spouting off on another forum that they should stop shooting deer in Alberta for at least five years in order to gie them a chance to repopulate...good luck with that one.
Sounds as if they have fired all of the Ungulate Biologists on Alberta and there is something seriously wrong with the herd.
Best Regards,
Rob
 
FLHTCUI said:
A well managed game herd is healthy...
American studies have show my statement to be true, but as always there are exceptions to the norm.
There is someone spouting off on another forum that they should stop shooting deer in Alberta for at least five years in order to gie them a chance to repopulate...good luck with that one.
Sounds as if they have fired all of the Ungulate Biologists on Alberta and there is something seriously wrong with the herd.
Best Regards,
Rob
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I guess one has to start with deciding what is "normal" . We've had about 20 years of mild winters and deer herds had expanded exponentially, hence all the supplemental tags and 2 deer limit. I can remember when I first started hunting in the late 60's took a lot of work and luck to bag a deer. Then, in the 80s and 90s couldn't drive down the road without almost hitting one. Weather patterns change and affect game populations. Gotta adapt and government isn't known for being speedy.

Grizz
 
This spring I counted 115 does in one day. This evening is was hunting with my wife and counted 9 does and 1 buck. Now 1 less buck. I've travelled highway 21 for 4 years now and seen more muleys than whitetails. Strathmore area used to have tons of whitetails now the muleys have pushed them out. Strathmore area is a wed to Sunday hunting only.
 
bellero said:
Well that's your opinion but that's not what thousands of Alberta hunters are saying. For the record, I lived in Alberta before for several years in the 90's and hunted here back then. It's easy to compare what was hunting then and now.
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So you've talked with thousands of Albertan's eh???? Interesting...

Quit getting your information from AO. It is generally a bad source.

So where have you physically been hunting that you have noticed such a drastic change?
 
Well, there seems to be at least 12 hunters in this thread that agree with me! Every hunter I talk to around here as well as everybody on Sask and AB hunting forums agrees that numbers are low for WT's. I spent all of last week in Slave Lake hunting my father in law's property and all I could have got is a young doe, I counted less than 20 deer in total. While hunting that same property a few years back, I could easily see over 200 deer in a week and had my pick of nice bucks.

If there's no drastic decrease in your area, consider yourself lucky but please don't tell others they are wrong for reporting what they are seeing in their respective area without even being there.
 
I didn't really want to start a debate about conditions outside of the Swan Hills. This was about WMU349 primarily, as that's the area I travel in all the time. I don't get over into WMU350 much, but down towards Fort Assiniboine, I'd be thinking there's better numbers. WMU351 I do travel. Pretty much never see deer in any of the areas, where I operate in WMU351.

FWIW, in the last 10 days, I've seen 6 deer total. That includes driving Hwy 32 back and forth to work, which is 60 clicks each way. Five of those deer were seen along the highway.

So 5 deer on Hwy 32 and 1 deer, in the field. In one week. I think that's poor in anyone's book...

Everybody pretty much understands the factors involved with the deer decline; the point is, we cannot do anything about the weather; we don't shoot anywhere near enough coyotes and wolves, me included. The one thing we could all do to help the deer recover, is stop shooting the does.

And hunters should lobby the F&W Dept to stop these damn doe tags, in WMUs 349 and 351 for sure, and probably 350 for good measure.
 
Pretty sure the F&W people who issue the sup doe for the wmu's have more education of management and a better idea of actual #s in the area than you.
 
I have to agree Demonical.

In our area, there is a very noticeable drop in deer numbers & yet ALL FOUR in our hunting group got doe tags! Now, it may be that we 'just got lucky' in the draw, but IMHO they should not have handed out ANY doe tags this year in our zone. WHY? Because I sat for our 2 week rifle season AND DID NOT SEE a deer!

The property owner said that all the neighbors are talking about the numbers of coyotes, and while I think a mature deer can handle coyotes being around, the young (fawns) and any deer with an injury, is toast. It's also important to realise that coyotes are bigger the further East you go... My guess is they average 40lbs around here & a pack of them CAN take down deer.

I think my comment about mature deer is accurate because the two deer I managed to catch on my trail cameras were an ~ 8pt and an ~ 10pt buck. NO DOES, NO FAWNS!

Cheers
Jay
 
Lots of does mulie and WT in AB's 200 zones and mostly no supplemental tags issued.Tripping on big moose daily.cows,calves and wall hanger bulls.Is the big game meat in Swan hills still toxic? As it was high in moose at one time in the 80's? Hazardous waste disposal site.Ego plays a huge part in gotta shoot a buck.I read a 60% harvest was recommended to have a healthy herd.In States like Minnesota car/deer deaths are way more than the ones shot by hunters.An aerial wolf cull is what's required announced after the fact to media.JMO...a harsh winter is nature's solution to overpopulation like in 2008 in GP AB about 90% deer and moose dead...Harold
 
These so-called 'mild winters' are hell on the deer here. We always get ~3' of snow up here, and that's after compaction. Then when you get these thaws/warm spells, it forms a thick crust. It's brutal on the deer but helps the coyotes and wolves, as they can travel on top of it.

We had 2 out of 3 winters here where they estimated anywhere from 50 to 75% deer mortality.

Combine that with what the coyotes and wolves are doing, and you can see why the deer herd is so thin.

If you've never traveled through the Swan Hills area, you might have trouble relating to what I'm talking about. If your take on deer is farming country, then you probably don't understand what this is like up here. It's a different world.

I know all the spots where I used to see deer; I know what kind of numbers of deer I used to see; and I know what I am NOT seeing now...
 
Demonical said:
These so-called 'mild winters' are hell on the deer here. We always get ~3' of snow up here, and that's after compaction. Then when you get these thaws/warm spells, it forms a thick crust. It's brutal on the deer but helps the coyotes and wolves, as they can travel on top of it.

We had 2 out of 3 winters here where they estimated anywhere from 50 to 75% deer mortality.

Combine that with what the coyotes and wolves are doing, and you can see why the deer herd is so thin.

If you've never traveled through the Swan Hills area, you might have trouble relating to what I'm talking about. If your take on deer is farming country, then you probably don't understand what this is like up here. It's a different world.

I know all the spots where I used to see deer; I know what kind of numbers of deer I used to see; and I know what I am NOT seeing now...
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I know in the 7 months I've been in and out of house mountain every two week's and I don't think I've spotted any game or tracks on my way thru... Even going up the tower road 20km I'd figure I may of spotted something but just not a damn thing...

Your rite, it is diffrent country out there...
 
fiddler said:
I tend to agree.

We have a farm not too far south of Swan Hills area and we're seeing whitetails herds in the fields around 30 animals, all last year it was just above 20 animals. We generally wait for a nice buck, and since we have scores of elk and moose, the does are not hunted hard. That said, we can still take a few does without hurting much. The wolves are the biggest problem in our area, and part of the agreement to hunting access on cattle farmers land, is to shoot every wolf we see.
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Just out of curiousity where in the heck can a person have a farm "not too far south of Swan Hills"? Theres nothing south of Swan Hills till Ft Assiniboine or Whitecourt.
 
I have no knowledge of swan hills, but usually deer numbers are more effected by winter kill, unregulated hunting and predators than regulated hunting.
 
^ Gate, as soon as the doe license came in, guys started shooting a doe first, then they'd roll around looking for a buck. The deer decline began as soon as people started taking those does.

And you're right, the severe winters here is the big killer. But it is also the reason you cannot afford to shoot does.

When you have the winter kill that we do, and less does every year, it doesn't work.

I was driving through Whitecourt a couple days ago, and what's sticking out of the box of a truck? 2 more dead whitetail does... I just shake my head.
 
Gatehouse said:
I have no knowledge of swan hills, but usually deer numbers are more effected by winter kill, unregulated hunting and predators than regulated hunting.
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Swan hills has all 3 in abundance...


It's easy to point a finger at people who hunt doe's yet the guys who only take bucks often take a spiker near the end of the season "for meat" of course then end up whineing every fall how there aren't any good bucks anymore and this activity gets lots of adoration and "nice buck" when said pictures are posted on various hunting forums including this one... Sigh

Vegetarian, old Cree word for BAD HUNTER... Lol



Prime example, yes it's farm land where I am in 360/521 but I put a ton of miles on this fall looking for WT, dident see a damn thing but elk/moose/yote and wolf in areas that had herds of 15-20 deer every morning and evening last year... When the snow came it was obvious the deer were nowhere to be found in the normal spot's... I expanded my search a bit and quickly found everything had shifted south 3-4 miles from where it had been for the last 3 years... No doubt pushed back from predators hunting along the river valley edge....


Oh wait...
Yes.... Bad year for white tail deer in our area indeed... Stop hunting em please... Not many left... Not even worth starting the truck or lacing up your boots...




 
Hotwheels81 said:
It's easy to point a finger at people who hunt doe's yet the guys who only take bucks often take a spiker near the end of the season "for meat" of course then end up whineing every fall how there aren't any good bucks anymore and this activity gets lots of adoration and "nice buck" when said pictures are posted on various hunting forums including this one... Sigh
Click to expand...

Funny how that works eh.....
 
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