Hello everyone, I have read many posts here but this is my first new thread. I have an interesting problem happening with my Swiss Arms Black Special Target. I've shot approx 4000 rounds through this gun, and its always worked great until recently. The gun is setup with a Nightforce 2.5x10 scope and everything else is stock. When I shoot it now the first 5-8 shots impact where my scope is zeroed, but suddently the POI will shift approx 10 inches low and stay there until I let the gun cool down completely. The change of POI is always accompanied by a very distinct "TING" noise made by the gun. When I hear this ting, I know the next shot is going 10" low!! I've tried a different scope, different ammo, cleaned the gun perfectly, and still the problem persists. I use this gun for target only, and I've got it red hot on many occasions. Has any one else every experienced a similar problem like this? Any ideas will be much appreciated.
Swiss Arms Black Special POI Suddenly Changes
- Thread starter datatools
- Start date
I would be very surprised if you managed to "pooch" the barrel after 4,000 rounds, even in rapid fire strings without cooling time in between. The barrels are the same as in the Swiss service rifle. They have been tested to 30,000 + rounds for lifetime and, remember, the service rifle is selective fire. I have seen Swiss reservists in videos emptying several 30 round mags without a break. If the barrel shoots fine, as you wrote, until you here the sound and then shifts point of impact, a fitting problem is the culprit, where the barrel is attached to the receiver, not the barrel itself. In my Sig rifle, I have noticed that impact point changes when the barrel gets hot but only if I support the rifle at the bipod point or using the bipod itself. Try and support the gun closer to the receiver and see whether you still get such a large shift on impact point. I don't know where the Sig armourer is in Canada. Try Wolverine for info.Does anyone know of a certified Swiss Arms armourer? I believe the barrel getting hot is the cause. I've had it REALLY hot quite a few times, and my guess is that it is now "pooched" and needs to be replaced.
Roughneck12
Regular
- Location
- Blackfalds AB
TSE in Calgary has a swiss armorer. I forget what his name is but give him a call. He was very helpful when we spoke on the phone and even talked me out of an fanciful idea that I had.
- Location
- big sky country
Really? Once the round is chambered, how does it know whether the mag is in the dirt or not?
Roughneck12
Regular
- Location
- Blackfalds AB
Soldiers regularily use the bottom of the magazine as a rest.
DaveMachine
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- That one place with a cowboy complex
I don't know about the Swiss Arms, but shooters at CFSAC regularly rest their mags on the ground without having their POI shift. I'm thinking the Swiss Arms isn't too different from our C7s in that regard.
Any inconsistant pressure to the handguards or using the factory bipod will definately change the poi - magazine, not so much...
...but I don't think the issue described by the OP is anything that is the norm - for sure take it to an authorized Swiss Arms Armourer.
...but I don't think the issue described by the OP is anything that is the norm - for sure take it to an authorized Swiss Arms Armourer.
F22_RaptoR
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Edmonton, Alberta
Yeah talk to the guys at TSE.
If it was a gradual change in POI over a few shots I could maybe see, but "all of a sudden" it sounds like maybe the gas tube for the piston isn't locking in right and is "setting" when it heats up.
Have you tried doing a full field strip and re-assembling it as-per the manual to make sure everything is in the right order? (my buddy has a black special, so I've seen him strip it a few times, but don't know it enough to know if something an be put in slightly backwards or something)
If it was a gradual change in POI over a few shots I could maybe see, but "all of a sudden" it sounds like maybe the gas tube for the piston isn't locking in right and is "setting" when it heats up.
Have you tried doing a full field strip and re-assembling it as-per the manual to make sure everything is in the right order? (my buddy has a black special, so I've seen him strip it a few times, but don't know it enough to know if something an be put in slightly backwards or something)
I have a swiss arms custom precision rifle, its a shr 970 heavy barrel on a mcmillion a3 stock, any how I had a funny problem like that last year where i would be shooting tight groups then all of a sudden my poi changed dramatically And i couldn't figure it out for the life of me, got home went over the whole rifle and realized one of the screws on my rail became loose causing it to shoot funny. took the screws out, put some loc tight and bang it was good again. maybe its somthing like this id go over all screws to make sure they are tight.
hope that helps, and the swiss armourer at calgary is at the tse, his name is stephon, good kid knows his stuff.
hope that helps, and the swiss armourer at calgary is at the tse, his name is stephon, good kid knows his stuff.
Only reason I mentioned it is it happens with my AR. I don't know if the two systems are similar enough, but with my AR and multiple shooters, resting the rifle on the magazine results in a 9" POI shift to the left consistantly.
Just thought it may have been worth mentioning before you spend hundreds of dollars on an armorer to check out the rifle.
Just thought it may have been worth mentioning before you spend hundreds of dollars on an armorer to check out the rifle.
The problem with the rifle does not seem to be resting it on the bipod or magazine, etc... Once it suddenly shifts POI it stays like that until the gun cools again. There are no screws holding down the rail and the gun has been stripped and cleaned many times, nothing seems to help this issue. It has really dropped my confidence in the rifle, and I'm anxious to knowwhat could cause this. Im going to send the rifle to Stefan at TSE in Calgary to take a look at it. What I find the strangest, is when the POI suddently changes it ALWAYS shifts down approx 10 inches or so. It never veres left or right any, just straight down. Something else I might have noticed is that the POI will change whn the magazine empties the last round and holds the bolt open, but this doesnt always happen. Mostly it seems to happen when a few rounds are fired and it get warm, not even hot. Hmmmm....
The target model has the factory installed rail, right?
Is the rail shifting as the rifle heats up. How is this rail fastened to the rifle from the factory? Welded, screws? If welded, maybe it "tings" as it heats and the weld pops. Look for small cracks.
I have a Black Special with the iron sights. It is very accurate as is, but you have to have the same hold always. Any variation in pressure on the for end changes the POI markedly.
Is the rail shifting as the rifle heats up. How is this rail fastened to the rifle from the factory? Welded, screws? If welded, maybe it "tings" as it heats and the weld pops. Look for small cracks.
I have a Black Special with the iron sights. It is very accurate as is, but you have to have the same hold always. Any variation in pressure on the for end changes the POI markedly.
Gunnerlove
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Vancouver Island
X2 Beltfed is right.
I've considered punching out the pins that hold on the gas block to inspect/clean. Then reassemble and try it again, but I'm concerned that the pins will get damaged if I attempt to pound them out. Has anyone else taken their gas block apart.
The rail is welded to the receiver, but this area of the rifles doesnt even get warm. I've inspected the gun closely and can not see any cracks, etc...
