Swiss Arms Black Special - RCMP Review???

Status
Not open for further replies.
BadAsMo

BadAsMo

CGN frequent flyer
Rating - 100%
6   0   1
Location
Ontario
Swiss Arms Black Special - RCMP Review???

So I was in Ellwood Epps just before deer season looking at a Swiss Arms Black Special and the sales guy said the rifle was under review by the RCMP and could be re-classed as restricted.

Have any of you guys heard if this is true and if there has been a new determination?

I'd like to pick up a semi auto 223 that is not restricted and I've been flip flopping between the XCR and the Black Special. Current wind is blowing toward the XCR only because it's not restricted but if the coast is clear on the Black Special I would probably drift that way.

Any thoughts?
 
quick google search show this rifle as restriced on some websites and non on others? sorry doesnt answer your question only further confuses
 
Here is what we know: RCMP did some chest thumping and gave a deadline to the importers and Swiss Arms to prove lineage to the 540. The requested info was provided by the manufacturer. It has been months since the deadline, no reclassification. RCMP is staying quiet, their lab got schooled.
 
The rifle has a barrel length of 20.78" and is likewise non-restricted.

The restricted guns zeuce has seen are the carbine and cqb variants which have 17.9", 14.3" and 9" barrels and are therefore restricted (barrel lengths under 18.5" on a semi-auto centre fire).

The RCMP "review" is indeed true; it started in the spring. The RCMP last declared they had determined the Swiss Arms series of rifles were variants of the prohibited Sig 550 and thus likewise prohibited. They set a deadline for evidence to the contrary (which was June 30). Dealers and the manufacturer made their case and we have heard nothing since.

Make no mistake, if the Swiss Arms is reclassified, it will be moved to the prohibited category. There is no legislation that permits the RCMP to move the entire series of rifles to the restricted category. Only government intervention can save the rifle or render it restricted if the RCMP go forward with their ban-crusade.

If you think it is absurd that the RCMP are devoting precious police resources to deprive good citizens of their property....if you think it there is something fundamentally wrong with the firearms act that gives the police this power to which there is no appeal....and if you think there is something wrong with our firearms classification system if it could potentially render a firearm prohibited that has been in use in this country for over a decade with no known misdeeds tied to it....then I suggest you contact your MP and join the NFA.

Edit:
The correct answer is to buy both.

One more swiss arms owner is fantastic. It's one more stakeholder who will fight passionately to keep the RCMP at bay. One more XCR owner would also be fantastic...we all know they'll be coming for that gun sooner or later too.
 
Last edited:
BadAsMo said:
Swiss Arms Black Special - RCMP Review???

So I was in Ellwood Epps just before deer season looking at a Swiss Arms Black Special and the sales guy said the rifle was under review by the RCMP and could be re-classed as restricted.

Have any of you guys heard if this is true and if there has been a new determination?

I'd like to pick up a semi auto 223 that is not restricted and I've been flip flopping between the XCR and the Black Special. Current wind is blowing toward the XCR only because it's not restricted but if the coast is clear on the Black Special I would probably drift that way.

Any thoughts?
Click to expand...

The review was done 6 months ago, and the classification is still the same. As I've said before that once the RCMP review is complete if found that the classification stays the same the RCMP don't have to make a public service announcement about it, in that case the FRT stays the same. The RCMP firearms lab doesn't have to announce any findings as there as been no change, and I honestly wonder if people will still banging the reclassification drum two years from now without a public service announcement ;).

For now if a person were to purchase a rifle it would have to be done so based off of the information available to them, and that is the rifle is non-restricted or restricted based off of barrel length. I hope he doesn't mind but I'll answer this question with a quote from Steve Janes as he answers this very well and intelligently;

Steve Janes said:
SAN Rifles aren't going anywhere. The RCMP are just doing what they do, if they could have they would have.

The sooner we all get over it and the businesses relax and bring them out of the back rooms and start selling them again, then this will all fade away into nothing. The RCMP made an attempt and failed, and figure the longer they say nothing at all, the longer the rifles stay in limbo, to them this is "guns off the street"

Our Black Specials / Classic Green rifles are EXACTLY the same as the Swiss PE90 with two very important exceptions:

1. Those little bits of metal on the inside of the receiver to prevent the f/a trigger group from fitting:
a. Small Finger - tacked into the Swiss PE90
b. Large Block - silver soldered & then laser welded into our SANS

2. a. Swiss Arms uses the 540 mandril on our rifles
b. Swiss Arms uses the 550 mandril on the PE90

There is NO difference between the two mandrils - they are both just the first step on two different process lines.

The bulge on the 550's lower receiver necessary for the 3 rnd burst selection is formed on a SECOND mandril used in the 55x production line, and the channels inside the 55x needed by the f/a trigger group is a SLEEVE which is pressed / soldered / then welded in the receiver later down the 55x production line.

Contrary to popular belief - the Swiss PE90 CANNOT be made full auto, as it is exactly the same as our rifles.

After our Swiss Arms rifles come off the 540 mandril - they join the 55x production line for the barrel, bolt, bolt carrier, gas system, and furniture.

Our Canadian rifles are the only ones SANS does this with - ergo a minimum order of 25 rifles is needed for them to go through the re-tooling (change out the mandrils) of the production line.

This is why the RCMP are so pissed off - it is a PE90, but it isn't ....
Click to expand...

Again you can only make a buying decision with the information that is available at the moment, and that is the classification is the same as it has been for 11 - 12 years. You only live once and get to enjoy so much out of life, if you allow your purchase choices to be dictated from what may happen in the future you will likely steer clear of that XCR as well. The Liberals might get into power or might form a coalition with the NDP to get power should they have enough combined seats, and from there all semi auto rifles will be up for reclassification likely to prohibited.

Enjoy what freedom you have while you have it and buy the XCR or Swiss without fear of the future, live in the moment and have fun with life :D. Besides, you just let everyone here know that there's a SAN at Elwood Epps and if you don't buy it the rifle won't be there for long ;).

zeuce said:
quick google search show this rifle as restriced on some websites and non on others? sorry doesnt answer your question only further confuses
Click to expand...

That is because it is classified based on how it should be by our current law, by barrel length. In other words rifles with less than 18.5" barrels are restricted while rifles with 18.5" barrels or greater are non-restricted.
 
If/when the RCMP come to the conclusion that the rifle will no be re-classed I wouldn't expect them announce the decision, they'll leave us hanging as long as possible.
 
MD Charlton said:
Good morning MD,

You are correct; we are the Swiss Arms Canadian Distributor. Shortly after our first shipment of rifles, the RCMP began reclassification discussions. As a result, no further rifles have been imported.

Regards,
MDC
Click to expand...

QUOTE=Brian46;9551623]are new ones being imported agian? I don't see much new inventory anywhere and have not for a while.[/QUOTE]

No they are not being imported anymore. Not until the importer changes their minds.

You think this might increase the value of the swiss arms that are actually in the country. But I don't think it has. Not yet.
 
Last edited:
09outlander said:
If/when the RCMP come to the conclusion that the rifle will no be re-classed I wouldn't expect them announce the decision, they'll leave us hanging as long as possible.
Click to expand...
They are not actually leaving anyone hanging. The review was done internally at the request of a Canadian dealer. The actual terms and even the existence of the review was supposed to be kept internal and private. It became public after the details were leaked. The RCMP have no requirement to pass on their findings unless it involves a change of status. To date that has not happened. To some this indicates that there will be no change in status, to the less optimistic this means that the RCMP may be working at a slow pace. As pointed out above, why let their future decisions affect you present purchasing. At some point in the future handguns and semi autos will likely take a hit, but right now you can shoot to your heart's content.
 
evolture said:
No they are not being imported anymore. Not until the importer changes their minds.
Click to expand...

This would lead one to think the Importer does not have faith in there being a positive outcome on the reclassification as they would not want to risk losing money in inventory of a questionable item
 
awesome post ! this should be made a sticky

thanks loki


loki_81 said:
The review was done 6 months ago, and the classification is still the same. As I've said before that once the RCMP review is complete if found that the classification stays the same the RCMP don't have to make a public service announcement about it, in that case the FRT stays the same. The RCMP firearms lab doesn't have to announce any findings as there as been no change, and I honestly wonder if people will still banging the reclassification drum two years from now without a public service announcement ;).

For now if a person were to purchase a rifle it would have to be done so based off of the information available to them, and that is the rifle is non-restricted or restricted based off of barrel length. I hope he doesn't mind but I'll answer this question with a quote from Steve Janes as he answers this very well and intelligently;



Again you can only make a buying decision with the information that is available at the moment, and that is the classification is the same as it has been for 11 - 12 years. You only live once and get to enjoy so much out of life, if you allow your purchase choices to be dictated from what may happen in the future you will likely steer clear of that XCR as well. The Liberals might get into power or might form a coalition with the NDP to get power should they have enough combined seats, and from there all semi auto rifles will be up for reclassification likely to prohibited.

Enjoy what freedom you have while you have it and buy the XCR or Swiss without fear of the future, live in the moment and have fun with life :D. Besides, you just let everyone here know that there's a SAN at Elwood Epps and if you don't buy it the rifle won't be there for long ;).



That is because it is classified based on how it should be by our current law, by barrel length. In other words rifles with less than 18.5" barrels are restricted while rifles with 18.5" barrels or greater are non-restricted.
Click to expand...
 
Shooting Centre said:
They are not actually leaving anyone hanging. The review was done internally at the request of a Canadian dealer. The actual terms and even the existence of the review was supposed to be kept internal and private. It became public after the details were leaked. The RCMP have no requirement to pass on their findings unless it involves a change of status. To date that has not happened. To some this indicates that there will be no change in status, to the less optimistic this means that the RCMP may be working at a slow pace. As pointed out above, why let their future decisions affect you present purchasing. At some point in the future handguns and semi autos will likely take a hit, but right now you can shoot to your heart's content.
Click to expand...
when should we epect to see new shipments of swiss arms in country?
 
Don't listen to what "the guy behind the gun counter" says (at sporting goods stores), most of the time they have no idea what they're talking about.
 
09outlander said:
If/when the RCMP come to the conclusion that the rifle will no be re-classed I wouldn't expect them announce the decision, they'll leave us hanging as long as possible.
Click to expand...

Not the way i see it - they'd be overcome with glee that they'd just got another crusade to go on, and would be pulling on their jackboots. Immediate action is what i'd expect if there was any heat coming. Silence is what you get when they don't want to admit their 'mistake'.
 
BioPace said:
Not the way i see it - they'd be overcome with glee that they'd just got another crusade to go on, and would be pulling on their jackboots. Immediate action is what i'd expect if there was any heat coming. Silence is what you get when they don't want to admit their 'mistake'.
Click to expand...

Yup, the mustard stripe brigade would be love to mail out "you are in possesion of a prohibited firearm letters" They will have to make do with banning paintball guns and those ultra dangerous BB guns. :) :) double smileY face
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom