Swiss arms, HK sl8, or an XCR?

Epoxy7 said:
Tough call.

I own two out of the three, and a buddy has the SL8.

Personally I'm not a fan of the XCR. I picked one up and just didn't like the fit/finish or the feel. but some will like it. Ergonomics are very good. The trigger on the new ones was good. Cost seems high to me for what it is. I like my Stag 2T a lot better. If the AR was non restricted, the XCR in Canada wouldn't even be sold. If this rifle was $1500 I'd buy one. But it isn't.

Swiss Arms. You can pick one up for 3K brand new, or buy one used on the EE for significantly more :p. A very well made quality rifle. Well thought out. I really like my target model. The only negatives are weight, 5 round mag capacity and the Russian style charging handle on the right.

Tavor. Love it. It's fantastic for shooting off hand. I personally love the ergonomics and how it balances. The only negative is the trigger being heavier. If we could get one of these in a varmint bull barreled version with a lighter trigger I'd be all over a second one.

SL8. Love the action, not so fond of the civi style furniture or the price tag. It's hard to justify the price when you can buy a Tavor for not much more (Around the same if you sell the Mepro sight that comes with it). If the price was right I'd buy one. But so far it's always been too high. Also it would be a varmint rifle in stock form. Once you start converting it to a G36 style, well you're at the same price as the stock Swiss arms rifle with all the features right from the factory.
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Oh that's some well detailed advice, mon ami! Thanks for typing all that out :0

Yes, I have noticed the price of used ones being higher than new sometimes! haha

So the chraging handle is on the right...like my CZ....darn... Is there a way to convert it/swap it out for a lefty version?
 
emilio613 said:
Oh that's some well detailed advice, mon ami! Thanks for typing all that out :0

Yes, I have noticed the price of used ones being higher than new sometimes! haha

So the charging handle is on the right...like my CZ....darn... Is there a way to convert it/swap it out for a lefty version?
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Not unless SA has started making a left ejecting version. On the bright side, the bolt release is around the same place as an AR-15, so apart from chambering the first round, you generally don't have to touch the charging handle when reloading.
 
Ar180shooter said:
Not unless SA has started making a left ejecting version. On the bright side, the bolt release is around the same place as an AR-15, so apart from chambering the first round, you generally don't have to touch the charging handle when reloading.
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Oh alright, well that's not too bad. I assume once you have ever so delicately dumped a mag onto some zombies, it's a matter of just popping in another and dropping the bolt release. Does the action stay open on the SA's after the final round?
 
Here's my take:

FULL DISCLOSURE, I own an XCR.

Swiss Arms:

Great rifle, but very expensive. Its 3k$ + tax, + shipping (for a used one. They are retailing now around 3400$). Very rarely can do better on that price. The mags are unique to the swiss arms rifles and are very expensive (around 100$), the rails are expensive (like 700$). But it shoots very well, and is very reliable.

SL8 - Good rifle, accurate. Mid range in price (2500$). The stock is terrible/awful. Takes non-standard magazines, which are more expensive, but not as bad as the swiss arms (around 70$). Can be converted to take AR Mags, but will cost quite a bit to do so. Can be converted to G-36 style, but will cost you about 1000$ by the time you've done all the conversions, but will be awesome when finished. So, if you plan on doing that, factor in the cost.

XCR - The least expensive (currently retailing around 2300$). I purchased mine last year for 2200$. Has a monolithic rail, takes AR mags. Calibre conversions are available to allow you to hunt game using 6.8mm or 7.62x39 (at a cost of about 700 per conversion kit). Is easy to clean, and shoot. Good ergonomics. Some people do not like the stock, I personally love it, and an adapter to take AR stocks is only 75$. Left side charging handle (can be charged without removing the rifle from your shoulder). Ambidextrous safety and bolt release. Bolt release is being copied by other manufacturers in future rifles like the ACR. People have complained about reliability, but I can assure you those do not reflect the concerns of new firearms. I have not experienced jams related to the rifle (did have some problems with a PMAG, but that was because of how it was pinned, and was easily corrected). Takes standard AR grips and any Pic rail accessories. It shoots very good, but the swiss and SL8 may shoot slightly better (or I might be a bad shot).

Honestly, I think they are all good rifles and you should carefully consider what you are getting, and realistically consider what you'll require in upgrades to the base model in computing how much you are truly paying.
 
emilio613 said:
Oh alright, well that's not too bad. I assume once you have ever so delicately dumped a mag onto some zombies, it's a matter of just popping in another and dropping the bolt release. Does the action stay open on the SA's after the final round?
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For $3000 it better!!!

Short answer, yes. :p
 
Paul Morrison said:
Swiss Arms:

Great rifle, but very expensive. Its 3k$ + tax, + shipping (for a used one. They are retailing now around 3400$). Very rarely can do better on that price. The mags are unique to the swiss arms rifles and are very expensive (around 100$), the rails are expensive (like 700$). But it shoots very well, and is very reliable.
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Just a side note, the expensive mag problem has been solved by CanAm bringing in affordable magazines (~$40 each). I have 10 of the Polycarbonate mags and they haven't failed me yet. Also, you don't really need the fore rail... unless you're going to tacticool your rifle...
 
Paul Morrison said:
Here's my take:

FULL DISCLOSURE, I own an XCR.

Swiss Arms:

Great rifle, but very expensive. Its 3k$ + tax, + shipping (for a used one. They are retailing now around 3400$). Very rarely can do better on that price. The mags are unique to the swiss arms rifles and are very expensive (around 100$), the rails are expensive (like 700$). But it shoots very well, and is very reliable.

SL8 - Good rifle, accurate. Mid range in price (2500$). The stock is terrible/awful. Takes non-standard magazines, which are more expensive, but not as bad as the swiss arms (around 70$). Can be converted to take AR Mags, but will cost quite a bit to do so. Can be converted to G-36 style, but will cost you about 1000$ by the time you've done all the conversions, but will be awesome when finished. So, if you plan on doing that, factor in the cost.

XCR - The least expensive (currently retailing around 2300$). I purchased mine last year for 2200$. Has a monolithic rail, takes AR mags. Calibre conversions are available to allow you to hunt game using 6.8mm or 7.62x39 (at a cost of about 700 per conversion kit). Is easy to clean, and shoot. Good ergonomics. Some people do not like the stock, I personally love it, and an adapter to take AR stocks is only 75$. Left side charging handle (can be charged without removing the rifle from your shoulder). Ambidextrous safety and bolt release. Bolt release is being copied by other manufacturers in future rifles like the ACR. People have complained about reliability, but I can assure you those do not reflect the concerns of new firearms. I have not experienced jams related to the rifle (did have some problems with a PMAG, but that was because of how it was pinned, and was easily corrected). Takes standard AR grips and any Pic rail accessories. It shoots very good, but the swiss and SL8 may shoot slightly better (or I might be a bad shot).

Honestly, I think they are all good rifles and you should carefully consider what you are getting, and realistically consider what you'll require in upgrades to the base model in computing how much you are truly paying.
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Ooo more good info! I would get an XCR as I was planning on earlier, but I can't find anyone with a 7.62X39 one for sale used. Also, if they had one, it'd cost me an arm and a leg. For now, I am just weighing my future options. It's not like I will buy it tomorrow, but I do want to know what the opinions amongst users are, and what I can look for when I do decide to get one...So far if I want .223, it looks like the Swiss is the best option, minus the darn COST! lol
 
I have no complaints about my XCR other than it's front heavy, I'd love to have a lightweight 16" barrel for it.

I haven't shot it a whole lot, less than 1000 rounds, but nothing has fallen off mine and so far no failures. I'm not going to say it's a better rifle than any of the others, some people have definitely had problems with them, and it may not be the gun to take to war but who really cares?

Bottom line, it's a reasonably priced (compared to the alternatives up here in Banada), non-restricted black rifle with a nice option to swap calibers. I wouldn't try to talk you out of a SAN rifle because it's on my wish list too but I don't think you'd be unhappy with the XCR.
 
emilio613 said:
Ooo more good info! I would get an XCR as I was planning on earlier, but I can't find anyone with a 7.62X39 one for sale used. Also, if they had one, it'd cost me an arm and a leg. For now, I am just weighing my future options. It's not like I will buy it tomorrow, but I do want to know what the opinions amongst users are, and what I can look for when I do decide to get one...So far if I want .223, it looks like the Swiss is the best option, minus the darn COST! lol
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This isn't a bad deal for a brand new one.

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=480551
 
so ill come out and say that i dont own any of three however being that i worked at a retailer, i've had a chance to play with all three on many occasion. so this is just a basic non-biased opinion from someone that as no invested interest in any :D

Swiss arms: lets just say that shooting the rifle is comparable to your first time in bed, each and every time you pull the trigger. the action is basically a Swiss refined AK action, i cant say in my experience i've never seen the rifle produce a malfunction. the mag issue is now a non-point on price with the new can-am mags, however accessorizes on the other hand, are if you don't have a deep wallet are a tough pill to shallow. i don't mind the weight and balance with a stock rifle however start tacking on a rail system and a kitchen sink and well might need to do a lil weight lifting. i think maintance is pretty simple and really only need to remove the both carrier group from regular maintenance, while the piston well i dunno i've heard some guys just shot silly amounts of ammo before cleaning the piston it self.

Rob Arms: nice rifle, however the "issue" rate is a little high however its still a young rifle give it a few years and most of the issues should be ironed out with time. like most said the gun is front heavy with out a doubt a shorter or lighter profile barrel wouldn't hurt. i personally like the monolithic upper, no need to bolt an anything to barbie up your rifle. like most said stock is something to be desired, however the AR stock adapter improves the handling light years over the factory stock (that's me talking). the caliber change thing i'm yet to actually to see it work for real or talk to anyone that as actually used it so I'm out to launch on that. cleaning is pretty much AK simple, push in tab lift upper from lower and pour out components and clean.

SL8: the SL8 reminds me something of the monolith from 2001 a space odyssey. really nice rifle, i personally like the weight and balance. on the issue of the stock, i don't mind the factory stock however i wouldn't openly admit i tapped it either. yes mags are terribly painful however there are 2 fixes one being the AR mag well adapter or the new magpul G36 pmags. the bit i do like even a fancy dressed up G36 the weight isn't really that bad compared to say a barbied SAN rifle or a mid/rifle length AR. upgrades seem to be not bad to come by however from what i've seen, prices are much like the Swiss arms. as a plus damn near completely ambi aside from the ejection port. for cleaning i would say the SL8 is number 3 on the list. so far i've only seen the factory screws that need to be undone to take a part the rifle, so quick tool free range cleanings are not doable.


i wont bother talking about the internal system seeing as on a basic level they are all the same thing. i really like the Swiss arms simple, rarely malfunctions and parts for upgrading are nowadays easy to come by. the SL8 is number 2, the rifle it self runs fine with out issue however if i could get a real G36 that didn't cost twice as much as my car i would pick it over the Swiss. lastly the XCR good rifle seems to work for most just that small group that have nothing but problems and with my luck i would get a problem rifle, easy to clean and maintain and really don't need anything to barbie it up, its just the track record and the stock that bother me.

so take my opinion for what its worth. I'm sure i could have typed a lot more,however i don't wanna say the wrong thing or get a fact wrong and endure the wraith of someone more qualified on any of the three rifles.
 
OMG...
Just got to shoot an Black Specail from Swiss Arm's and I now want to sell my AR for 1.
Damm the person who let me shoot it.
And to boot it sort of reminds me of the gun that served to protect Canada for manny year's;
SA%205%2056%20FAL%20with%20SUIT.jpg

9-7-2006-9_19_11-PM_black.jpg

Swiss%20Arms%20black%20special,%20cropped%20bright.JPG
 
I've been contemplating the same thing for a while (though also considering a restricted AR).

It seems that nobody has anything bad to say about the Swiss Arms, but there's a few things that are holding me back on the decision, such as the lack of caliber conversion kits, and different barrel lengths.

If I could get a 7.62 conversion kit for the Swiss Arms, and possibly some choices of barrel length, I'd be sold.

Is there any difference between the black and green, other than the name and the colour?

Just out of curiosity, why do people try to sell used ones, sometimes for more than the cost of a new one? This seems common with the SAN rifles, but I've also noticed it on several others. An AR for sale recently even said something along the lines of "$4500 into this rifle, asking $6000 firm"....
 
People are naive, try to squirm the most money out of people who have very little idea on the prices of guns. They think cuz they added 5 mags to a rifle but shoot it 1000 times the price goes up. But rarley do you ever hear of them selling it. Buy new for rifles like this I would say unless you stumble acroos a reallly good deal. I sold my swiss sg550 classic green with green furniture and 3 aftermarket mags for $2700. I sold it for that price BECAUSE I wanted to SELL it, not keep it.
 
AJCrowley said:
Just out of curiosity, why do people try to sell used ones, sometimes for more than the cost of a new one? This seems common with the SAN rifles, but I've also noticed it on several others. An AR for sale recently even said something along the lines of "$4500 into this rifle, asking $6000 firm"....
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while i hate to bring a topic off topic. some users will say 4500 in upgrades that may not include items like mags, optics, spare parts or other random accessorizes. so 4500 in is just the rifle tack on extras and price goes up. as for SAN rifles, most users i now at least put on the scope rail and that's a 200-400 part.
 
Thanks for the answers.....looks like for me, it's a choice between the non-restricted goodness of the SAN rifles, or the flexibility of an AR.
 
I have an SL8. All dressed up to be a G36 of course. A friend has an XCR. I find the SL8 to be lighter, even though both are heavy barrel variants, I also find the SL8 to be a lot less maintenance than the XCR in cleaning and lubing and things. There is pretty much one thing that needs to be cleaned after each range trip on the SL8, being the barrel and the piston, and to remove the piston I find is much easier on the SL8 as compared to the XCR. My friend struggles sometimes to put his firearm back together after cleaning, while the plastic parts of my SL8 come together with little force required.

Both can take AR mags (although the SL8 requires a magwell change), allowing for operation from commonly available magazines, the SL8 very nicely has an ambi charging handle, and I find the selector switch on the SL8 to be larger, and thus easier to use.

Over all, I like my SL8, I think it's great, very reliable (have not had any stoppages, failures, or anything in the year and 1000 rounds I have put through her). Service exists through Wolverine Supplies, and although parts may take a while to come in, the nice thing is that you most likely will not need those parts, as it's very reliable. Most likely after many (possibly over a hundred) thousands of rounds, after the barrel being shot out and replaced a few times, the trunion and the bolt lugs will flatten out against each other. Best of all, you can make it look like this (yes, it is an SL8, it's remarked to say G36, tra-la-la, but it is an SL8):

10hpojm.jpg


Badass.
 
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