Swiss Arms PE90 Magazine Connector Tabs that catch on Mag Pouches and Gear
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Steve Janes
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Calgary/Ontario
Here is another I just found on you tube (I believe I know this guys screen name on CGN, but I'll wait for him to show himself before I give him away 
), followed by another magazine change video I forgot I had. In the first video, the only thing I would change is to keep the sights on target during the mag change, there is no need to can't the rifle up and grasp it in the shoulder like that unless on the run, or kneeling behind an obstacle or wall.
This one captures a bit more consistency than the first one
), followed by another magazine change video I forgot I had. In the first video, the only thing I would change is to keep the sights on target during the mag change, there is no need to can't the rifle up and grasp it in the shoulder like that unless on the run, or kneeling behind an obstacle or wall.This one captures a bit more consistency than the first one
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- Location
- Canada, west
Slick mag changes for sure, but no one seems to check the position of the bolt prior to performing the mag change. Immediate action on any stoppage should be to check bolt position, there is no point dropping the mag and pulling out a fresh one only to find out you have a double feed/obstruction/other...
Steve Janes
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Calgary/Ontario
The Swiss has a reciprocating charging handle, unlike an AR, you don't need to cant the rifle and look to be able to see the position of the bolt. The bolt handle will be in plain view and during a malfunction your able to see that it hasn't gone all the way forward in your peripheral vision or with just a quick glance. Honestly, the big heavy long stroke piston really feels different from other platforms when you have a malfunction and the bolt doesn't fly home, the entire weight of the rifle is shifted and the operator knows he felt something different, and confirms it by glancing at the charging handle to realize it's not all the way forward. Regardless of this, malfunction drills are different than a magazine change drill, and practicing a full malfunction drill every time you needed to change an empty magazine would be pretty pointless and cost valuable seconds in a situation that simply called for a magazine change. For a malfunction drill, I very quickly observe the bolt handle to confirm it's a malfunction, call it out loud, "stoppage", drop the magazine (using the left hand, the mag won't always fall free during a malfunction), right side under cant the rifle and rack the bolt (sometimes twice), insert new mag, right side under cant and rack, call it out loud "back in", and engage target.
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- Location
- Canada, west
How do you determine a malfunction vs. empty mag without sighting bolt handle, when drilling I treat every time the gun stops shooting as a malfunction. Bang bang bang, no bang, STOPPAGE, can't rifle to the right, sight bolt or charging handle and continue with reload/clear malfunction, in a real world senerio you'll have more than 2 or 5 rounds in your mag and you won't anticipate your rifle stop firing as much as you do during training, especially with 2 or 5 rounds in your mag. But yah the Swiss arms is a different animal than what I'm used to. I liked the video of the broken gun drill, that #### is pretty cool.
Steve Janes
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Calgary/Ontario
I don't understand......Malfunction vs empty mag IS determined by sighting the bolt handle, as it's never out of your sight......on an empty mag the bolt and handle lock back like a mini-14. Chances of you pulling the trigger on an empty magazine and getting "no bang" are slim, because when the mag runs dry you've already seen the bolt handle lock back (and feel the difference in balance too). During a malfunction, the bolt will be in a funky position or appear all the way forward but be just out of battery, in this situation, you do pull the trigger again and get a "no bang" and so perform a malfunction drill.
Ya, for that drill, I just ran in and performed my standard malfunction drill, which I had practiced many times previously, and was very different from how the instructor had guys clearing their AR's. The Swiss is a different Animal indeed, and really doesn't experience malfunctions like AR's do, that doesn't mean you shouldn't practice for them, but it's very rare. The only kind of malfunction my sequence of moves won't clear just like that, is a bolt override, and I have never seen or heard of one of these in a Swiss rifle, unless the shooter did it on purpose.
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Steve Janes
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Calgary/Ontario
Maybe not prior, but as your engaging the target or re-assessing
"back in"
"cleared"
"I'm up"
"I'm in"
Anything to let your partner (if shooting with one of course) know the stoppage has been cleared and your back in the fight. I figured a guy like you would know this kind of verbage???
Kampfhamster
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Switzerland
Interesting video. The way of clearing a malfunction is also a matter of the philosophy behind it. Doesn't really matter, as long as it works.
Also depends on the level of training. The lower the standard, the simpler the drill has to be.
We train that a malfunction and an empty magazine are treated the same. --> rifle doesn't go bang: tap the magazine, rack the bolt, if the bolt stays locked in it's open position change the magazine.
No need to look at the bolt, the eyes stay on the target.
Also depends on the level of training. The lower the standard, the simpler the drill has to be.
We train that a malfunction and an empty magazine are treated the same. --> rifle doesn't go bang: tap the magazine, rack the bolt, if the bolt stays locked in it's open position change the magazine.
No need to look at the bolt, the eyes stay on the target.
Steve Janes
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Calgary/Ontario
I used to try this tap and rack on my Swiss, and found every mal I ever had was of the nature that needed the mag dropped anyway, so I just made getting rid of the magazine the standard, and now do this everytime.
A guy like me knows when his firing team partner's gun is again sending rounds down range, that is enough to tell me he's back up and running - but maybe that's just me, I haven't done team fire and movement for a lot of years, so I'll shut up now.
Kampfhamster
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Switzerland
Well, it does happen that the magazine is not quite correctly inserted, so tapping the magazine makes sense in my books. But if you think otherwise, go for it.
It's just that I used to work with stupid recruits. For quite some time it was SOP to put a piece of paracord under the mag floor plate as a poor mans magpull. Then it was sometimes the case that the magazine wouldn't take 20 rds anymore. If you loaded 20 rds, it was possible that you couldn't insert the magazine completly, yet it would stay in place, but not feed for the first round.
What kind of malfunctions did you have?
It's just that I used to work with stupid recruits. For quite some time it was SOP to put a piece of paracord under the mag floor plate as a poor mans magpull. Then it was sometimes the case that the magazine wouldn't take 20 rds anymore. If you loaded 20 rds, it was possible that you couldn't insert the magazine completly, yet it would stay in place, but not feed for the first round.
What kind of malfunctions did you have?
- Location
- Canada, west
Yah, I didn't read where you said you are sighting the charging handle in your peripheral. You ran that drill exactly how I would of, take up rifle, drop mag, clear, new mag, go...ideally you'd want to put it on safe, but during a fire fight, assuming that is what the instructor was trying to simulate, no safe.
Kampfhamster
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Switzerland
Maybe it's just not necessary to shoot anymore. So there has to be some kind of communication between the team members.
Steve Janes
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Calgary/Ontario
It's all good dude
I'm relatively new to the team fire and movement stuff myself, but have learned a lot in recent months from some experienced shooters, and instructors, and at least in the recent courses, verbally letting your partner know that you have cleared a stoppage or even finished changing your magazine are the norm (ex, me: "reloading", partner: "covering", me, "back in"). What if the shooting has stopped........ consider this: you and your partner have just engaged targets, as your engaging he calls stoppage, you finish engaging the targets and continue to cover your teammate, but before he can finish clearing his stoppage you have "finished" the targets. There's 10M between you and your partner and the gunfire has ceased, how does he now make you aware that he has cleared his stoppage and is once again ready to engage or move? Your not looking at him, your searching and assessing......so he calls out, "back in", does his search and assess, and then move or conclude or w/e the drill/scenario calls for.
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- Location
- Canada, west
That is what I was taught and teach. But again the stuff they teach in the CF isn't exactly cutting edge or the end all of weapons handling. It's hard to un train years of doing it a certain way with the fear of punishment if you do it another way.
Steve Janes
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Calgary/Ontario
It's not that I don't think it makes sense, I actually really value your opinion as a Swiss shooter, it's just in my personnel experience, every stoppage I have ever had was made worse by the tap and rack, and so I ditched it altogether. Now this is instinct and training scars are hard to break even if I decided I wanted too
Every mal I have ever had with a Swiss, has been of the double feed nature (15 in 5000 with the problem Black special, 1 in 5500 on the classic green caused by me) I think one time I had a mag not inserted properly, but I didn't get a chance to find out because instinct took over and I performed a stoppage drill.
I wouldn't know about the training in the CF as I was never in, but have great respect for those who have served. And yes training scars are very hard to break, especially the Military ones.
Would you really be punished if you were communicate with your fire team partner this way?
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Some people can become "connected" with the machine they are operating. They understand the sounds and vibrations that it makes, meaning they don't need to take time to look because it has already told them what is going on.
- Location
- Canada, west
True, with all my semis I can tell when the bolt locks back or doesn't go fully forward. Mind you this is in ideal conditions, start running and gunning, up he sees me down he doesn't, add in some stress and lots of noise, things get a bit more foggy.
Steve Janes
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Calgary/Ontario
Connection with ones machine (no matter how ###ual
) while under stress, fades away quicker than a boner in a firefight. Even in training when the heart rate goes up and the tunnel vision comes on, your brain turns stupid fast (at least mine does ), and connection with ones machine is a lot harder to achieve. Still possible, but no excuse for not practicing fundamentals, like visually confirming a stoppage by glancing at the bolt/charging handle.
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