Swiss Arms - really worth $3000+?

I own an AR but shot a Classic Green on the weekend and here are my observations:

Pros
  • Shoots very well
  • Well balanced
  • Feels good in hand
  • Translucent magazines are handy
  • Kicks brass far away up front
  • Like the placement of the charging handle
Cons
  • Cost
  • LOP was too short (I'm 6'2") something adjustable would have been nice
  • Deforms ejected brass
  • Included bipod is crap
  • Magazines are proprietary & expensive
  • Limited availability of accessories (IMHO)
My buddy loves his green & has no regrets dropping $3K on it. I liked it but I would be more inclined to buy one if they were in the $1,200-$1,500 range... I guess the answer to your question depends on who you ask. I love Volvos and will spend more to buy & maintain one while my buddy drives North American.

:) | olaBoots
 
I mostly agree with your comments Ola, except that:

Pros:
It doesn't just shoot well - it cycles like a Swiss made machine; smooth as glass.

Cons:
Ergonomics:
  • I found the grip small (I have big f**king hands. Most times in life that has helped me out -- just not here.)
  • I found the safety selector unusable with gloves on, and non-ergonomic otherwise. This makes smoothly shooting an event more difficult than it needs to be. I think you'd need thumbs like a pervert to manipulate without shifting the grip.
  • An EoTech 552 mounted on the receiver rail (aftermarket) is a recipe for slicing your hands. If you screw up and ride the cocking handle forward, you can easily tear your hand open. It is retarded as it sounds - but I'm just sayin...
 
retepnosflow said:
These are 2 different fruit your dealing with!
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While it may be the case. But sometimes, when my classic green ejected case would get stuck between the ejector port and the bolt handle, thus jamming the gun, and cutting into the rubber on the bolt handle. I've also seem first hand people with torn rubber seal near the bolt handle.

Haven't had anything remotely like that with my stock (even the wood) M14. Maybe I'm just unlucky with the swiss and lucky with the M14. But if you do a little search I'm not the only one with the ejection problems.
 
Gunnerlove said:
Guess you don't want to hear about zero malfunctions in 10K+ rounds last year with my issue ARs, or that my new stag shoots moa out of the box and has had zero stoppages in the first 1000 rounds I have put through it.

Take your pic The Swiss Arms is a good, reliable, well built iron sighted rifle for +/-$3000.
Or buy a Stag 4R with a leupold optic, 5 mags and a thousand rounds of ammo for less.
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Good for you! They have probably improved quality a little since the first C7s, but I managed to break two. (By abusing them severely; You know, like by pulling the charging handle to the rear to chamber a round, and pulling the handle right out of the receiver... Really rough and unusual treatment like that. ;)

My Swiss is only about four years old now, so I have yet to experience any stoppages at all... Don't really expect one this decade, but I keep my IA drills sharp, just in case. I mean, hey, we make kids do fire drills at school, too, right? When was the last time a child died in a fire in a school, in North America? :cheers:
 
Gasanwu said:
While it may be the case. But sometimes, when my classic green ejected case would get stuck between the ejector port and the bolt handle, thus jamming the gun, and cutting into the rubber on the bolt handle. I've also seem first hand people with torn rubber seal near the bolt handle.

Haven't had anything remotely like that with my stock (even the wood) M14. Maybe I'm just unlucky with the swiss and lucky with the M14. But if you do a little search I'm not the only one with the ejection problems.
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I've only ever heard of one problem, and that was the one you mentioned above. The rifle was sent to TSE and repaired quickly.

I did alot of research before I bought my rifle.

Sounds like you got a bit of a lemon, but did nothing about it. Were you shooting factory ammo?
 
I think every single person I've let test fire either my Classic Green/Blue Star or CQB have immediately said thereafter that they had to have one. They're well made, rugged firearms that just "feel" solid in your hands. That steel does come with a weight cost however, but when you factor in all the rails and extra crap that is bolted onto ARs these days, they're about even. I'm not knocking ARs either, I love 'em as well and my favorite past-time, aside from reloading/bullet casting is building ARs. That said, if it came down to just one rifle to stake my life on, I'd have to say Swiss Arms.

Out of the box, the SA will out shoot just about any stock AR hands down and many so-called DMR rifles with good ammo. The Achilles Heel of the AR system has always been its magazine system. In that regard, the SIG/Swiss Arms system is superior in reliability and ruggedness. Mag changes may be a little slower initially, but with practice that "fault" can be largely negated.

As for price...anybody check the price of AR mags lately? Guys are paying upwards of $100 a piece for PMAGS and $55-$60 for standard C-Products and DPMS 30 round aluminum mags!:onCrack: That makes the Swiss Arms mags about even these days.

Probably the biggest advantage that the AR has these days is the 10 round LAR-15 mags. It doesn't take long to burn through a five round mag at the range and constantly reloading neutered mags isn't a lot of fun, however, at least the Swiss mags don't cut the hell out of your thumb!:) Being able to easily snap multiple mags together is another big plus in my books. I'll grudgingly give a slight edge to the AR simply on mag capacity right now. Talking non-neutered mags...Swiss Arms all the way!:evil:

As for brass damage, the addition of a little piece of velcro next to the ejection port almost eliminates that tell tale AK style brass crease, so no biggie. But in the grand scheme of things, why limit yourself to either or? Get both and enjoy!:)
 
To me, not worth $3000. However, that probably has more to do with the fact that I can't shell out that kind of coin for one right now.

The one that I shot was a good quality and accurate rifle... but, for the money, I would get an XCR and a couple crates of ammo instead.
 
bluesclues said:
To me, not worth $3000. However, that probably has more to do with the fact that I can't shell out that kind of coin for one right now.

The one that I shot was a good quality and accurate rifle... but, for the money, I would get an XCR and a couple crates of ammo instead.
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Obviously you've never fired either a Swiss Arms rifle or a Rob Arms XCR! If you had, there is no way the XCR would be your pick!:) It is kinda' like turning down the free Ferrari and opting for the beater Camaro sitting in the used car dealers lot, across from the Ferrari dealership, cause the salesman is throwing in a free tank of gas!
 
X-man said:
Obviously you've never fired either a Swiss Arms rifle or a Rob Arms XCR! If you had, there is no way the XCR would be your pick!:) It is kinda' like turning down the free Ferrari and opting for the beater Camaro sitting in the used car dealers lot, across from the Ferrari dealership, cause the salesman is throwing in a free tank of gas!
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Really? well if you pay more for a name it must be better:rolleyes:


The XCR is a great gun. I've had know problems with mine. Ajustable gas settings, built in rail system, caliber convertions on the way from wolverine.
I bought mine when the prices where abit better , worth every penny in opionion, now they go for about $2500 new from wolverine.
As for the Swiss Arms, I've never shot one, but from what I've read they are a great gun too, it all comes down to what YOU want, and can afford.
I have no regrets:)
 
X-man said:
It is kinda' like turning down the free Ferrari and opting for the beater Camaro sitting in the used car dealers lot, across from the Ferrari dealership, cause the salesman is throwing in a free tank of gas!
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{Harv takes X-man's analogy out behind the woodshed and gives it a whippin'}

Bad analogy! Bad! Now go to your room!

Now, had the analogy been something a bit realistic... maybe along the lines of a $30k Eurowhatever vice a $28k domestisomething with a gas card good for a year it wouldn't have needed that beating, but I've never heard of a free Ferrari (read: Swiss Arms) available anywhere. ;)
 
The Swiss Rifles are worth every penny. Ive recently picked up a Green Classic and the only reason I will sell it is that the AR15's allow for a legal 10round magazine. The Non-Restricted status is also worth it!
 
X-man said:
Obviously you've never fired either a Swiss Arms rifle or a Rob Arms XCR! If you had, there is no way the XCR would be your pick!:) It is kinda' like turning down the free Ferrari and opting for the beater Camaro sitting in the used car dealers lot, across from the Ferrari dealership, cause the salesman is throwing in a free tank of gas!
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X-man, I have fired both and just liked the feel of the XCR better. Both, for me, were utterly reliable and at 100 meters, had roughly the same accuracy. Not in any slamming the Swiss Arms, just IMHO, I'd rather have the XCR and the extra ammo :D
 
bluesclues said:
X-man, I have fired both and just liked the feel of the XCR better. Both, for me, were utterly reliable and at 100 meters, had roughly the same accuracy. Not in any slamming the Swiss Arms, just IMHO, I'd rather have the XCR and the extra ammo :D
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I don't fire mine at 100 yards. I feel that it would be insulted. It laughs at 200 and really prefers to spend its time around 4-5.
 
Ignorance is bliss....[/QUOTE]:confused: whats your problem?

I'm not putting down the Swiss arms gun? hell If I had the money I'd have both, but having the XCR to me means I just need to buy convertion kits, not whole new rifles.
 
Subjective

This is a subjective question based upon each individual.

There are other platforms that do the same thing shoot 556/223 in semi at a lower price... sure.

Unrestricted... perhaps but fewer still.

As accurate? Perhaps?

Ergonically correct... subjective to each body shape and handling expectations..

I would love to get a Swiss for less. The EE has shown them selling for $2500-$2700 used of late some with great options mags/rail etc (in contrast to the asking price) and it comes down to supply and demand. I want to buy one for under $2000 too as that is what I think they are worth but somebody else is willing to pay $2500 used and more new so that is where the market is for them.... the market determines their worth so I gotta pay that then if I want one. That is what the market will bear.

Ppl may ask for allot more but the 'worth' or value is determined by the seller and buyer on that given item at that time.

Also given that ppl sell them regularly (see quite a few on EE weekly) states that they would rather have the $$$ rather than having funds tied up in such an expensive toy. Novelty wear off? Other wants? Issues with gun? Not meeting expectations? Each may vary.

I would rather have a better TV, nicer ATV, Dirt bike, new washer and dryer, new rims on the truck, new roof etc...

When they first came out in Blue at $2450ish as I recall as that was a very high price for a gun of this nature, ppl asked the same questions... are they worth this amount of $$?

I am also sure that there is a certain 'status' associated to such an expensive purchase.

So for those of you who own a Swiss and feel it is no longer worth it, contact me please ;)
 
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