Dear CGN members: I write to respond to the allegations leveled by CSC against TSE.
What allegations? An article was posted by TV press pass that pretty clearly spells out who did what and when. No why was ever discussed. The only allegation was that involving the RCMP without dealing with SAN and MD Charlton and ourselves was impulsive and reckless.
What happened?
In early 2013 an individual walked into TSE with a rifle that appeared to the experienced eye to be either a counterfeit of the Swiss Arms “classic green”, or possibly a converted prohibited rifle.
CGN members and Swiss Arms’ owners should know that later, at IWA 2013, a Swiss Arms employee stated an owner of one of TSE’s competitors was going around Switzerland buying up rifles at auction and from ex-service members, bringing them into Swiss Arms’ factory in “batches” to be refurbished. The CEO of Swiss Arms was present at this meeting, and stated he had no knowledge of this.
Our inspection of the rifle brought to our store supported what Swiss Arms told us.
With the knowledge of these facts, the spectre was raised that Canadians may have unknowingly purchased rifles that were or are prohibited - no responsible firearms retailer could avoid contacting the RCMP, who we are sure, will clarify what the complete facts are and what is relevant.
Why was it suspected to be counterfeit or converted?
1) The 4 digit serial number was wrong for a ‘civilian’ firearm;
No, not true
2) Furniture colour and texture predated anything known for retail/commercial sale[
Again not true and furthermore furniture can be changed out. It could have been replaced at any time by anyone including the owner or SAN
3) There was no Swiss Arms factory marking;
4) There was no commercial production marking;
Again so what? These are often not replaced on refinished guns or on all production guns
5) It was missing the internal parts added to retail/commercial rifles to further prevent C/A conversions;
absolute BS. Furthermore as shown in the photos I posted all C/A guns will have the trip slot cut.
6) The Upper and lower very mismatched colours, indicating either re-working, or a change-out with another rifle; and
7) The spacing of the serial numbers was too large.
And they were advertised as refurbished too. Great detective work.
Basically, any experienced owner would see this was a VERY old rifle, that it appeared someone refinished the upper, and changed the serial number and name. It doesn’t matter why this was done – it looked like a Classic Green civilian accessible firearm, but may have not been intended for use in Canada.
Interesting accusation. Do you believe that SAN changes serial numbers on guns as a matter of course? If so what does that say about Canadian specific guns in general? Again you really are not helping things.
Swiss Arms’ Practices
As a responsible gun owner and retailer, we question the soundness of Swiss Arms’ practice, but recognized Swiss Arms doesn’t “control the commercial market” in Canada. Ultimately, given the RCMP were already aware of this issue, Swiss Arms should re-think its policy, but it is not up to TSE to control imports into Canada – that is the RCMP’s and Border Control’s job. But TSE would not stand by watching Canadians inadvertently purchase rifles that may turn out later to be inappropriate for import.
So the RCMP already knew about this but their emails very clearly state that the investigation was undertaken at your request. Hmmmm
And even though SAN told you the rifles were the same you took it upon yourself to initiate an investigation because you knew better?
Swiss Arms’ policy raises questions, and we believe Canadians are entitled to answers:
1) If the rifles are otherwise acceptable under Canadian law, why change serial numbers?
2) If the rifles are acceptable, why change the name / designation?
3) If the rifles are acceptable for sale in Canada, why were other importers not offered these firearms?
All your accusations and based on nothing. Also why did other dealers not discuss this option with SAN instead of initiating an investigation?
The Real Issue
In my opinion as a gun retailer with many years’ experience, CSC’s concerns are misplaced: the whole issue of whether it is “C/A or not” is a red herring. The RCMP will quickly sort this out so it is not of primary concern. Moreover, these receivers are not easy to convert. There have simply been production changes over the years that make the internals look a bit different.
The real issue comes down to the lineage of the rifles, and all Swiss Arms owners should be concerned with the possibility that old PE90s and old issued, demilled military rifles may have been brought into Canada inappropriately, or without the knowledge of their true lineage. Potentially, this could screw up the ability of everyone to enjoy the actual Classic Greens.
So C/A is a red herring but you are concerned about C/A guns getting in the stream? The gun at question ESF9116 was a semi automatic rifle not a demilled military rifle. Your control guns however appear to be C/A. And another interesting fact that receivers change over time. So what makes you so certain the differences you noted were not as a result of one of these changes? Also thanks for keeping things from getting screwed up for SAN owners. Again you really need to stop posting you are not helping things.
Clarity
The Calgary Shooting Centre claims this is just a misunderstanding. TSE is glad to hear there is an explanation, and is confident our competitors are cooperating with the RCMP.
Ultimately, the RCMP will determine whether there is any responsibility for any incorrect import or sale of firearms, and if so where that responsibility lies. TSE has no role in the investigation.
CSC claims TSE has acted wrongly, and has accused CSC of acting illegally. To be perfectly crystal clear, our understanding is that no Swiss laws were broken by anyone doing any of these things. Further, TSE has no information that CSC has broken any laws, nor has TSE ever accused CSC of doing so.
Really? So an NWEST interview based on the importation and sale of prohibited firearms is not an accusation of a crime? OK, would it be fair of me to make the same accusation about you and TSE then? After all the control guns were C/A.
All that has happened is TSE has reported to the RCMP that certain firearms of questionable legitimacy are in Canada posing as Classic Greens, and re-finishing used military firearms for the purpose of importing them into Canada.
At the end of the day, Swiss Arms stands by their decision to sell the rifles in Canada. They have done so, however, without full regard for purchasers in the Canadian market. Purely as opinion, TSE suggests Swiss Arms has in effect thrown the Canadian market under the bus (probably inadvertently) by stating the refinished rifles are “mechanically identical” to civilian accessible rifles. It is for this reason, and due to Swiss Arms’ comments, we believe, that the RCMP is concerned with the entire lineage of these rifles.
Right SAN is to blame because you know better. Again a military rifle is FA, for our guns to be demilled military they would require a new receiver. Your guns on the other hand....
What happens now?
At present, TSE is trying to show the RCMP there is no real harm from the non-prohibited line of rifles. While the RCMP may have recently become aware of new facts due to TSE’s being a good corporate citizen, it is Swiss Arms’ comments that gave rise to the RCMP’s scrutiny over the larger class of rifles.
But at the same time maintaining there is a real danger from rifles that are mechanically identical to them?
Further, the RCMP previously obtained an SG540 and SG542 and were in the process of looking at the SAPR. So, their scrutiny over the Swiss Arms’ products wasn’t due to TSE’s report alone.
Actually they received the SG540's after the fact because a dealer has been trying t import them. Also the RCMP email states quite clearly that their investigation is exactly because of your request
In a nutshell, the facts are that an organization bought old rifles that may be prohibited, renamed them, changed the history and serial numbers and then allowed them to be brought into Canada to sell as “Classic Green” civilian accessible firearms.
All unsubstantiated BS
In our opinion, TSE did the right thing to prevent further crackdowns by the RCMP and further pressure against owners and importers of foreign rifles; if a foreign company has acted to make the RCMP scrutinize a larger class of rifles more closely, that is the RCMP’s prerogative and the foreign company’s issue
Thanks I would hate to see an RCMP crackdown, it would be worse than mass confiscations, right?
To further complicate this, the RCMP, in order to investigate the SAPR, rounded up an SG540 and SG542 and were in the process of looking at the SAPR.
The RCMP firearms officials stated during a conversation at CANSEC that now they possessed an example of the SG540, they were looking at the entire SAN family as the rifles had never been inspected at the time the FRT was issued. This was just another file on the pile, but this investigation pushed it to the forefront.
Yes, the issue is a mess. While CSC is trying to spin this as a gaffe resulting from blind hatred of CSC, the facts don’t support that. What remains the truth is that the concerns of all Swiss Arms’ owners were and still are legitimate. TSE stands by as a corporate citizen willing to assist gun-owners and the authorities for a resolution of this issue.
So bla, bla, bla it was someone else's fault. Interesting spin but sadly at odds with the facts. I would also add that in the event the RCMP do come to the conclusion that a Classic Green rifle is in fact a PE90 the above nonsense would seem to indicate that your actions were premeditated and vindictive in nature and not the helpful nonsense you suggest. I assume you have one more very good reason to hope for a positive outcome.
