Swiss Arms rifles being examined for reclassification?

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cr5 said:
Never heard of one of those, now get the F off my property.

Making these prohibited is the stupidest thing I've heard in a long time. Lots of gang bangers knocking off the local 7-11 with these? Bank robbers carrying them? crazy idiots running around killing people with them?
Lets make politicians and everyone working for the CFO or RCMP classifications lab prohibited. They don't seem to do anything to help us lately, just lie to us and screw us over every chance they get.
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Even if the miscreants WERE using the SA rifles...who cares? The issue is the same as in the USA right now and the AR with the school shootings...go after the criminals and not the tools.
 
Also, wasn't there a bit of a stir in the media when the government bought back some NR to Prohibs? If there are over a thousand out there, they likely wouldn't want to be seen spending $3,000,000 + buying them back at fair market...
 
Jäger said:
It is very well established that the SAN rifle family we have here in Canada is not derived from the Sig 550, but rather the Sig 540. Both the PE-90 series of rifles and the Sig 550 are derived from the Sig 540.

Think of it this way....the Sig 540 is the mom and dad. The PE-90 and the Sig 550 are the children. The PE-90 and Sig 550 are related and do share commonalities, but neither is a variant of the other. They are variants of their (same) parent gun, the 540. More importantly, the PE-90 is the older child of the 550. So how it can it be a variant of something it predates?

Due to the rifles being cosmetically identical, sharing parts and even a manual in some cases.....don't you think that would have been the first thing the RCMP explored when this rifle was submitted for classification?

Someone made an overwhelming and irrefutable case for the PE-90s lineage 12 years ago. It's a non-issue.
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Jager you are correct.
This was inspected and gone over before import was allowed years ago.
The 540 manufacturing was supposedly done so there was nothing to worry about.
The new 550 was starting production, so seeing the 550 in a magazine it was declared evil and banned.

Now the PE90 was declared to be derived from the 540, and so agreed the RCMP.
The 550 was also derived from the 540, but it was banned by name.
Of course they share lineage as they were both derived from the same firearm.
Should you peruse the PE90 FAQ in the black and green rifle section, there is a superb side by side comparison of a 550 to a PE90.
( Page 14, Post#136 by J996 of SA FAQ)
I can assure you that if the RCMP had any doubt, recall notices would have gone out eighteen months ago when all this began.
There may be similarities, but why try and take the time with all this investigation if they could not prove anything just yet?
So now they resort to tripping up the businesses and makers in word games in order to condemn.

Lately the RCMP have been asked to inspect the SAPR.
If they have not already, I suspect that they will shortly also be asked to review a 540 and a 542.

Often firearms are rejected not just due to their technical aspects, but more for their manufacturers claims in advertising.
Manufacturers must be cautious when claiming lineage and development.

The FAMAE SAF is also is derived from the 540. It is restricted only due to barrel length.
It is ok to bring in.

Now Steve has said that there were claims of Converted Auto lowers.
If there is merit to this, I am sure there would have been a widespread recall already or a massive recall to inspect all current PE90s.
It sounds as either something felonious has occurred, or less likely that some poor export controls were in place.
Especially given the near OCD aspects about the legally minded Swiss.

It is good to have a bit of healthy suspicion and to hold the RCMP accountable, but I will not launch myself off just yet.

I am going to walk away from this thread for a bit and let the blood pressure calm a bit.
 
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Posted by TSE JR on the previous thread that is now closed:

Firstly, I understand: Haters are going to hate so, I did expect my name to be dropped into the fray sooner or later.

To confirm: There is an ongoing investigation into the entire Swiss Arms family going on with the RCMP. It is about 18 months old as witnessed by us not having our SAPR FRT number yet. That submission started a file internally inside the RCMP to have the entire family looked at, as the original FRTs were given without an actual inspection of a firearm. It is now policy that FRTs for any potentially controversial firearm be thoroughly examined by them. I would expect, given my conversations with the RCMP people, that this is not the last of the examinations we will witness in the upcoming months.

This file did take on a more time sensitive nature though in November of 2012 due to the actions of a third party.

I have spoken at length with the RCMP firearms people and have been given a very lengthy letter of questions that they would like Swiss Arms to answer to put this whole matter to bed.

I am actually traveling over to Europe next week and am going to be working with Swiss Arms to prepare the documents.

Why you may ask?

Because I have more skin in the game than ANYONE in Canada in regards to these pieces of art.

1. My company has over $50k in parts and accessories in stock

2. My company has 7 of these rifles in inventory that we have pulled and put in the back as we feel it is unethical to sell them while there is uncertainty for the buyer.

3. I personally own 8 Swiss Arms rifles in various configurations that I would dearly hate to lose.

Detractors of me and my company are quick to point fingers at me. However, over time and once the dust settles, the truth of the matter and the organizations that are the true trigger points, besides the obvious mistakes made by individuals within Swiss Arms, will vindicate me and my organization.

As to this Dlask thing brought up: I have no idea what I am being accused of and have NEVER called the RCMP on Dlask. Why would I? I sell Dlask products and have nothing but respect for Mr. Dlask.

As I am not an agent for Swiss Arms, I cannot speak for them. However, I have spoken on numerous time in the recent months with their CEO/President and he is committed to helping in anyway he can.

I will post info and updates as I can. However even at this point it will take a few months before there is anything more to add. No one, including the RCMP want to screw this up.
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I actually feel fairly positive about the outcome being favourable for the Swiss Arms rifle. That being said I was under the impression that the PE90 had been checked over by the RCMP lab before original importation. Of note is that the PE90 manufactured for Canada isn't the same as the one on Europe and was made specifically for our market and to our laws.

This was posted in 2006 which is why I'm shaking my head a bit as we were lead to believe that these rifles have been examined by the lab.



TSE JR said:
I have spoken to SigArms about this, and while some Canadians are waiting with baited breath for this, you will not see any USA made SG55X rifles imported LEGALLY into Canada for civilian sale.

SigArms is talking about a US version. However this will be a variant of the SG55X/PE90 which is PROHIBITED in Canada.

I probably get one call a month from someone who tried to import a used PE90 from Europe and when customs siezed it, they cried foul... In most cases we have been able to assist these guys with re-exporting the rifles before destruction. However, our rifles have been made especially for us to meet Canadian guidelines. If it doesn't come from the Swiss factory designated for the Canadian market, it won't get in... This is not a marketing ploy, this is the reality. Remember, our rifle has been through the RCMP forensic lab along with original SG55X/PE90 rifles.

Enjoy what you have... :)
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^
When JR talks about the original FRTs were given, does he by that implies that they were changed/amended later on at some point in time.

If there weren't, then they aren't just the original FRTs, but the ONLY FRTs.

Not to be picking about the wording or anything, but..
 
So basically the issue with the Swiss is its relation to the 550 and its automatic ancestors. So why is the xcr mentioned and the tavor?
 
I didn't know the xcr had a automatic version. So if this is all happening what the hell does the ofah and the national Canadian gun whatever whatever actually do? Spend the money making terrible commercials on hunting channels who are already gun owners. Why not advertise on non hunter stations to send the message that not all gun owners are crazies. I can't understand why my xcr is anymore dangerous then a browning bar or any other "hunting" semi auto. These just look different that's it.
 
trying to rationalize anything the government does to do with firearms in Canada is like trying to rationalize...well, something that cant be rationalized. Sorry, im tired and lost my train of thought mid sentence. lol
 
Chago said:
I can't understand why my xcr is anymore dangerous...
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:rolleyes: ... Really? ;)

As I understand it, the Swiss Arms investigation (review) has actually been ongoing for 18 months now. I'm just curious why we didn't hear about any of this a year and a half ago. I'm also wondering at one point it becomes less ethical to continue to sell these (is that when it becomes public knowledge?)
 
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blaxsun said:
:rolleyes: ... Really? ;)

As I understand it, the Swiss Arms investigation (review) has actually been ongoing for 18 months now. I'm just curious why we didn't hear about any of this a year and a half ago. I'm also wondering at one point it becomes less ethical to continue to sell these (is that when it becomes public knowledge?)
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Why is my 223 xcr more dangerous then a browning bar in 300 Winchester short mag? For one a 223 is a peanut compared to a bowling ball when you compare kinetic energy and killing power of the caliber. Both guns carry 5 bullets and both guns are semi auto. Are you saying looks can kill with the xcr?
 
250rg said:
so justin can collect them using the restricted registry when he beats harper?
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Liberals won't get back in, in any meaningful way - at least for a few years. The NDP is what we REALLY have to worry about.

The liberals still have scars about banning handguns and getting their butts handed to them. The NDP have stated they are going to prohibit handguns, semi-auto rifles and just about anything modern and cool.
 
Reasons will prevail. Reasons why they wont do this, wont do that, why the AR wont be reclassed, no reason why they spend so much of our money on themselves and things nobody needs or wants. Lots of reasons. Yours, however like mine, don't count. You have a card in your wallet that makes you less than them therefore your life can get ruined at their expense if it means saving one life, or no lives, or just making a scene. Gotta love Canada, land of the lipsticked pitbull soccer mom regime. "My kid was shot by an assault rifle. Lets ban assault rifles so they cant shoot our kids" "My kid was hit by a stick. Lets ban sticks so they cant hit our kids" "I got aids, lets ban aids so I cant get aids" Must be something in the timmy's....

Paladin308 said:
This would be true if the system actually worked and reason could prevail. Unfortunately I have my doubts, particularly about the reason prevailing bit :(
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supernova said:
Reasons will prevail. Reasons why they wont do this, wont do that, why the AR wont be reclassed, no reason why they spend so much of our money on themselves and things nobody needs or wants. Lots of reasons. Yours, however like mine, don't count. You have a card in your wallet that makes you less than them therefore your life can get ruined at their expense if it means saving one life, or no lives, or just making a scene. Gotta love Canada, land of the lipsticked pitbull soccer mom regime. "My kid was shot by an assault rifle. Lets ban assault rifles so they cant shoot our kids" "My kid was hit by a stick. Lets ban sticks so they cant hit our kids" "I got aids, lets ban aids so I cant get aids" Must be something in the timmy's....
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Damn it, why does it suck so much to be right? Commiserate with me, I am now miserable about the state of our society.
 
x0ra said:
AFAIK, if you are one of the few business with the proper paperwork, you CAN get those firearms. There was a guy with such privileges on the EE trying to acquire a newly prohibited BD-38. Moreover, there is definitively businesses out there manipulating and dealing new production prohib', How else could L.E./Military acquires their weapons from Canadian business ?
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A business firearms license is the property of a legal entity, not of a person - no one (no person) can own a new prohib, and business use is strictly limited.
 
Yukon1911 said:
If every gun owner wrote to their political leaders, this would be a reality! No special brownies required :) The question is how do we organize all gun owners in Canada to focus on one single issue like a laser!
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I agree 100% we need to organise for action.
 
I took the time to clean up this thread since it is important.

If it doesn't have to do with the topic, don't post it. Promoting illegal activities will not be tolerated. If you can't discuss the topic like adults without referring to each other as retards, etc, there will be infractions and we will just lock the thread.

Please keep on topic and be respectful.
 
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