Swiss arms / SAN rifles FAQ

This document here:

http://www.amsd.ch/san-en.pdf

Includes the following phrase which I find very interesting:

The whole rifle family shown in this catalog is based on a modular system. By changing and adding components each rifle model can be converted into one of its sister models or can be equipped with new features. With a moderate investment you can cover a wide field of applications and react flexibly to new challenges.
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So if I am reading that right, if you had a Classic Green, you could convert it to a SAPR via some kit? Or vice versa? It also sounds like swapping from a longer to a shorter barrel is an easy mod as well?

That is really interesting.... or maybe it's just bad translation and you can only convert between the 55x family?
 
Xiao Xiong said:
This document here:

http://www.amsd.ch/san-en.pdf

Includes the following phrase which I find very interesting:



So if I am reading that right, if you had a Classic Green, you could convert it to a SAPR via some kit? Or vice versa? It also sounds like swapping from a longer to a shorter barrel is an easy mod as well?

That is really interesting.... or maybe it's just bad translation and you can only convert between the 55x family?
Click to expand...

You're just not reading it right. The translation is also fine. They mean that you can convert between 55x models, as well as add accessories, optics, rails, etc. The blurb about the rifle being a modular system is in the section talking about the 55x series rifles, not the SAPR. Also, if you think about it logically, how could you convert a Classic Green to .308 without lengthening the action and expanding the magazine well?
 
You can convert an XCR between calibers with a kit? I was hoping, but maybe you're right, maybe I am just reading it wrong. "Sister models" might just mean between the 55x's rather than between all the rifles in the pamphlet.
 
No way to convert calibres between 5.56 and .308 with a SAN. Period.


You can only convert between calibres of similar action length with the XCR. I.e. 6.8, 5.56, 7.62x39. Even the XCR has a different (larger) model to handle .308/7.62NATO. That model hasn't been released yet.
 
Xiao Xiong said:
You can convert an XCR between calibers with a kit? I was hoping, but maybe you're right, maybe I am just reading it wrong. "Sister models" might just mean between the 55x's rather than between all the rifles in the pamphlet.
Click to expand...

"Sister models" does mean just between the 55x series rifles. The pamphlet doesn't lead you to believe anything otherwise.

You can also switch out AR uppers to calibers like 7.62x39 and 6.8 SPC, but these only require the same action length as the .223. In order to accommodate a longer cartridge like the .308 win, you need a larger action and longer magwell. This is why .308 AR's, the XCR-M and SAPR have different receivers than their .223 counterparts.
 
How simple is the conversion between these sister models?

Is it quick and easy like the XCR, if you have the right kit? Or is it serious work?
 
Has anyone tried mounting a Leupold 2.5x Ultralight scope on their Classic Green? I see it has 4.9" eye relief. Would that eye relief and high rings clear the rear diopter sight and allow a proper cheek weld? All of it on a B&T mount.
 
Wiggle Between Upper and Lower

Gundoggy said:
All the swissarms rifles tend to have a bit of 'wiggle' in the handguards and between the upper and lower receiver. It does not affect performance.
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I agree it does not affect performance, but for me the wiggle between the upper and lower was annoying as hell, and then I found this on the Swiss Rifles Message Board http://theswissriflesdotcommessageboard.yuku.com/topic/8847/PE90-looseness

In the thread, the looseness between the upper and lower are discussed, as I said I couldn't stand how loose mine felt so I tried what this guy suggested in post #3, "The only other thing you can do is carefully bending the front fork part of the lower a little closer."(Guisan) I did this and My upper and lower are now very tight, I had to push a bit to get the holes to line up. There is no looseness or wiggle at all anymore. When I did this, I wrapped the fork part of the lower in a towel so as to not scratch the hell out of it, and then (I cannot stress this enough) "CAREFULLY" bent them ever so slightly tighter together with a pair of vise grips. It worked beautifully.

No more annoying wiggle!

................................................................................
Edited to avoid the pointless further argument.
You try to give credible info, from a credible source and you get all these "experts" chiming in to tell you that from what they have read, the manufacturer is incorrect about there own product. It creates for a situation where no one out there knows the truth because there is so much contradictory information.
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Another interesting tid bit, I recently wrote to Swiss Arms and asked them to clarify some things for me, I asked for Swiss Arms "official" statement about the 550/Black Special being fired under water, and being fired after fully submerging it.

I received this in response

Watertest.jpg
 
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Steve Janes said:
I agree it does not affect performance, but for me the wiggle between the upper and lower was annoying as hell, and then I found this on the Swiss Rifles Message Board http://theswissriflesdotcommessageboard.yuku.com/topic/8847/PE90-looseness

In the thread, the looseness between the upper and lower are discussed, as I said I couldn't stand how loose mine felt so I tried what this guy suggested in post #3, "The only other thing you can do is carefully bending the front fork part of the lower a little closer."(Guisan) I did this and My upper and lower are now very tight, I had to push a bit to get the holes to line up. There is no looseness or wiggle at all anymore. When I did this, I wrapped the fork part of the lower in a towel so as to not scratch the hell out of it, and then (I cannot stress this enough) "CAREFULLY" bent them ever so slightly tighter together with a pair of vise grips. It worked beautifully.

No more annoying wiggle!




The 550 and the Classic Green or Black Special are exactly the same gun - just the engravings are different.
The 550 is the official and real name for that gun and is available in semi auto only or full auto.
The whole Classic Green or Black Special name issue, is just for the Canadian market, so because the 55? guns are prohibited.

Best regards,
Stefan ############
Swiss Certified Gunsmith

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Another interesting tid bit, I recently wrote to Swiss Arms and asked them to clarify some things for me, one of these things was discussed above. (550vsClassic/Special=Same gun, Different name) The other question I had I posed to them like this: I would really like to know what Swiss Arms "officially" says about the 550/Black Special being fired under water, and being fired after fully submerging it.

I received this in response

Watertest.jpg
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I say this with respect and mean no offence, but, If it were true, the Swiss Arms rifle would have been classified as prohibited by being a variant of the 55x series. They could call a 550 a cheesburger and have a picture of Ronald McDonald engraved on the side but if the internals are the same its a variant and prohibited.

We are talking about the RCMP here, the same organization that classifies look a likes as variants regardless of internals and design.

The SA rifles are based on the 54x series, the 54x is an independent design that pre-dates the 55x therefore does not classify as a variant. All variants of the 550, read the 550 are prohibited. even though the 550 is based on the 540, the 540 is not a 550 and all variants of the 540 are not classified as 550's... unless the specific variant is a 550 then ya... you get it...

these small details can mean a whole lot in this country. Mind you regardless of all these the FRT lab is pretty much completely illogical. (yes I did read CanAms post after mine and added this, its a valid point lol)

I am by no means an expert and am going by what info I have gathered on the SA rifles. I am very interested in purchasing one, I only need 3300 bucks lol.
 
Lets put this one to bed once and for all.
There exists the SIG550 and The PE90. We all have the PE90 regardless of what color it is. And there is most certainly a difference in the steel structures of both lower and upper receivers between the two rifles.

Spend some time and study the dimensions and features of the lower and upper receivers and you will see the differences between them. Here are some noticeable ones.

PE90 top, SIG 550 bottom.

On the 550 lower there is a hump on the outside right to accomodate its trigger group. This is part of the stamping. The PE90 does not have this feature.

550vs90.jpg


SIG 550 on left PE90 on right.

Left upper: On left lower side of bolt carrier there is a small shiny tab attached to the receiver. The upper on the right does not have it. Compare those two areas of the receiver, they are different.

550vs902.jpg


All our SA's are stamped PE90 which is a purpose designed SEMI ONLY SPORT VERSION that will not accept the FA parts of the 550.

PE stands for Präzision Einzelfeuer (Precision Singlefire).

Yes the barrels, gas systems and furniture are the same but the receivers are differently designed and are SIG 540 based.

Since the receiver is the firearm, it is not the same rifle which is why it is allowed here (think rcmp lab). Receiver is based on the 540, which is the firearm, other parts don't mean sh!t.

What is the point in trying to prove we have prohibs in our gunsafes with these re-occouring "its a 550" discussions? What do we gain from this?
 
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Schnibbs said:
Did you ever have to change out any wearing part?
If so, which part did you change out after how many rounds fired?
Click to expand...

Managed to break the rubber on the charging handle on two of my rifles.

Also had to get the extractor pin's changed on my shorty and the carbine changed after about 5000 to 7000 rds (had to change it twice on the 553).

For some reason the extractor pin of my issued 550 seems to last for ever.

Everything else is still original after many years of quite heavy use, the 551LB looks quite beaten up, though.
 
The first time the pin just broke on the 552SB. Now it just became loose on the 551, the extractor itself was still rock solid.

While I was at the shop I also had the pin of the 552 (now converted to 553LB-standard) changed, it looked kinda funny.
 
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