Swiss Arms VS ACR

I've owned 7 Swiss rifles, (CQBx2, Carbinex2, LB Carbine, Rifle x2) and still have my NR Swiss Carbine. Great guns. The lack of bipod-ability ticked me off for a long time, but I've come to grips with the limitation. The carbine is by far my favorite version - lighter and handier than the full length.

Also owned 3 ACRs, all NR. It just doesn't do it for me. I WANT to love it, but it's all a little flimsy feeling compared to the Swiss. Accuracy was good, but I never did like the cheekrest on the stock, nor the handguard setup. It's a good rifle - but for some reason I prefer the Swiss these days.

sMN2zs9.jpg
 
I own both the Swiss and ACR, my Swiss is unfired at this point.

The thing is the Swiss is like a plug and play design, good to go out of the box and NR in Canada.

However the ACR is cheaper even once made NR, and is an excellent platform to build on and tweak similarly to an AR, but just not quite as good or as in depth with hundreds of manufacturers support, but I bet it will be close in the not to distant future. With advancements in carbon fiber handguards, light weight trunions, barrel options, stock options, lightened BCG's and upgraded lowers, the ACR is just entering in to its golden age in the Civy market.

The Swiss is a dated design with very limited ability for upgrades, and is quite heavy with little option to ditch weight, and is not a free floated barrel. In my opinion it is hard to say there is much competition from a theoretical position.
 
I've owned 7 Swiss rifles, (CQBx2, Carbinex2, LB Carbine, Rifle x2) and still have my NR Swiss Carbine. Great guns. The lack of bipod-ability ticked me off for a long time, but I've come to grips with the limitation. The carbine is by far my favorite version - lighter and handier than the full length.

Also owned 3 ACRs, all NR. It just doesn't do it for me. I WANT to love it, but it's all a little flimsy feeling compared to the Swiss. Accuracy was good, but I never did like the cheekrest on the stock, nor the handguard setup. It's a good rifle - but for some reason I prefer the Swiss these days.

sMN2zs9.jpg

Order a Bobro low ACOG mount. Works better with swissarms as it's not as high as the mount you have there. Bobro mount is much better than Larue and ADM in lockup too.

h ttps://www.amazon.com/Bobro-Trijicon-Compact-Mount-B08-001-002/dp/B00Z7NZRAI/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1473877177&sr=8-3&keywords=compact+ACOG+mount
 
Order a Bobro low ACOG mount. Works better with swissarms as it's not as high as the mount you have there. Bobro mount is much better than Larue and ADM in lockup too.

Sweet fancy Moses. I never knew such a mount existed! My white whale!!!! 100x thank you - that is actually the only 'complaint' I have on the Swiss is that even with the flattop, AR height mounts are slightly too high. Much thanks buddy...
 
In what way is the SA better than the ACR just from looking at it? I won't disagree that it's pretty heavy but I don't find it to be too heavy to carry around and use in the field. I've owned both rifles (still have an ACR). I kept the ACR because of the caliber conversion ability and I find it to be a more ergonomic rifle. The 300BLK conversion I built for it regularly shoots sub moa with handloads and judging by the groups I see with AE black box from my 223 barrel I'm sure I'll see moa or better from premium ammo or handloads.

If you wanted performance from your rifle you shouldn't have gone with x39, that is old surplus crap that you really shouldn't have much for expectations shooting, it is a good round for plinking and general blasting but it's not for accuracy and since not every barrel likes ammo the same as the one next to it you got lucky with your cz and unlucky with your conversion barrel.

$400-$900? You can still end up with a NR ACR for less than a SA. If you want a NR ACR there is no point buying a new rifle since you will be replacing the barrel anyway which means you can get one for just over $2000 then add a new NR barrel and be shooting for under $3000. Good luck finding a used SA for that price.

The bolt carrier design is not that uncommon, my AR180B is quite similar and so are a few other rifles. Sure it could have been lighter but those things are why the rifle shoots so smoothly. Not sure if you've noticed but the SA also has a pretty heavy bolt and carrier and the rifle is also quite heavy. It's also why guys buy heavy buffers for their AR.

The adjustable gas block? Settings are suppressed and unsuppressed so when exaclty are you going to need to adjust it? I've never had a problem removing it for cleaning so to me I find no problem with it. I would like it if there was a different regulator that had one setting for standard and one setting for hot ammo instead. Some of the guys in the US have said there is one but Gravel Agency has never heard of it so it's not available to us.

I liked my SA but it had a couple quirks I didn't like. It is definitely a well designed and built rifle but mine had a huge POI shift depending how you supported it which I could never accept. I do think the SA mags are better quality and more reliable than a STANAG magazine and think guys are silly to spend money to convert their rifle to use AR mags. The money spent doing that would be better used buying more SA magazines.

They are both great rifles but both do different things better than the other, a person really needs to handle and shoot both then decide for themselves which one suits them better. Everyone values different attributes so everyone will feel one is better than the other for different reasons.

One thing that I don't like is when someone owns one rifle but has never fired the others then rants about how his rifle is better. If someone has never fired the rifles he's saying his is better than then his opinion means nothing. There's nothing wrong with liking what you have but don't try to tell others it's better than the other options if you've never shot the other rifles (This is not directed at you or anyone specifically, just a statement).

If anyone in the Edmonton area wants to try an ACR let me know and we can try to line up a day we can meet and you can run a few mags through mine. Everyone I've let shoot it so far has loved it and commented on how smooth it is.

Ok buddy so I see you tore my post apart haha

First off, its a rifle not your blood born child so take it easy
If you read my post you would read that the rifle functions fine
I am reading my post now and cant see anything about wanting performance
But thanks for your great advice man!! I should just chamber it in 300 blackout
And burn up $$ on a #### round with such great availability

That "old surplus crap" is taking down coyotes at 300 yards at less than 15 cents a round
And dont tell me about being lucky and unlucky with rifles because that is not the case And
You just dont know what your taking about man. Have you seen my herron arms converison?
I said it was not as accurate as my cz! And its not. End of story.

$400-$900 for a conversion yeah? Whats your point here?
Why are you rambling about used prices? I said CONVERSIONS!

Bolt carrier is a #### design and so is your your ar180b
Thats why armalite dropped it.

Yes adjustable block.. it ADJUSTS to differant settings. I dont like it
Because the button is to close to the barrel when flipped upside down
So theres not alot of room for your fingertip, and again its my opinion
Not sure why you had to throw your useless little comment in

I dont get your reply, you must really love to hear yourself talk.
Dont reply to my posts in the future. Your a stuck up ###
 
Ok buddy so I see you tore my post apart haha

First off, its a rifle not your blood born child so take it easy
If you read my post you would read that the rifle functions fine
I am reading my post now and cant see anything about wanting performance
But thanks for your great advice man!! I should just chamber it in 300 blackout
And burn up $$ on a #### round with such great availability

That "old surplus crap" is taking down coyotes at 300 yards at less than 15 cents a round
And dont tell me about being lucky and unlucky with rifles because that is not the case And
You just dont know what your taking about man. Have you seen my herron arms converison?
I said it was not as accurate as my cz! And its not. End of story.

$400-$900 for a conversion yeah? Whats your point here?
Why are you rambling about used prices? I said CONVERSIONS!

Bolt carrier is a #### design and so is your your ar180b
Thats why armalite dropped it.

Yes adjustable block.. it ADJUSTS to differant settings. I dont like it
Because the button is to close to the barrel when flipped upside down
So theres not alot of room for your fingertip, and again its my opinion
Not sure why you had to throw your useless little comment in

I dont get your reply, you must really love to hear yourself talk.
Dont reply to my posts in the future. Your a stuck up ###

Lol, settle down.

I asked you to clarify how you can tell just from looking at them that the SA is a better rifle.

My comment about performance was in response to you saying your CZ shoots better than your ACR. Well, if your pencil barrel CZ shoots tighter groups than your Herron conversion you have a problem.

Yes, the 300BLK is far superior to x39 in every way except price but 300BLK is not hard to find and if you handload for it the round is extremely versatile. It also only requires a new barrel to convert from 223 instead of also needing to change the bolt and magazines as with the other options.

You said it's and extra $400-$900 to convert your ACR and since this thread is comparing the ACR to the SA I commented that you are still cheaper than a SA even after the conversion.

What is it that you think makes the carrier a poor design? It's been around for years and other manufacturers are still using it. The weight of the carrier smooths the cycle and makes the rifle last longer since it doesn't beat itself up as bad.
The bolt design is not why Armalite dropped it, Armalite dropped it because it couldn't compete against the AR-15 in civilian sales and it missed it's chance to be adopted by the military so it wasn't profitable to build any more. Eugene Stoner actually designed the 180 as an improvement and replacement for the AR-15 (M-16) but by the time it was ready the US military had already committed to the AR and wasn't about to change for a rifle that wasn't much of an improvement.

Gas block button? Well sure it's not super easy to change but it's also not hard to do and since the second position is useless to us the only time someone needs to push the button is at home when cleaning the rifle so if your fingers are too chubby to fit in there then maybe use a tool of some kind to help you out.

I'll reply to any posts I want to, especially if I don't agree with what someone is saying. Don't be so sensitive, we don't have to have the same opinion about things.
I also don't think of any rifle as a child, when it comes to firearms if something new becomes available to us and I like it better than what I have I'll sell one and buy the other (not always in that order). That's how I can say that I've owned most of the non restricted semi auto 223 rifles available to the Canadian shooter and give my opinion on them and so far the ACR is my favorite. Those that I haven't owned I've tried through friends owning them or shooting them at the range when someone offers to trade rifles for a few mags. I talk about and give my opinion about rifles that I have experience with, none of my comments about these rifles are based on what I read someone else say about it.

I'm not stuck up but you're entitled to your opinion even if it's wrong.
 
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