switching primers for first time reloader?

dfraser

dfraser

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Hi all,

I am using the Lyman Reloading Handbook as a step by step guide, using their recommended parts.

I cannot find the primer they used in the 308 section (Remington 9.5), all sold out, wondering if it is okay to swap out with another from the list in the primers section of the book?

Is there anything that I should be paying attention to by swapping primers?

Regards
 
Any large rifle primer will work fine in the .308 win case.
But when switching primer's or any other reloading component's it is important to start your load development again & work up carefully watching for pressure sign's.


Play Safe

Cheer's
 
RL-300mag said:
Any large rifle primer will work fine in the .308 win case.
But when switching primer's or any other reloading component's it is important to start your load development again & work up carefully watching for pressure sign's.


Play Safe

Cheer's
Click to expand...

Thanks for your response

Thought I should ask first before doing anything

Regards
 
If the load listed is with a mild primer (Federal) and you want to change to a hotter primer (Winchester or Remington) , then you should back off the powder charge a bit and work up again.

If you go the other way (hot to mild) you might find the primer does not give good ignition, and the accuracy will crap out.

As a general rule, ball powders need a hotter primer, especially if the powder charge is light and/or if the bullet is light.

In 308, for example, a mild primer might not work with H335 and 125 gr bullets.
 
it is my personal opinion that its easiest to buy a large amount of the same primers. i like CCI large rifle magnums. the magnums fit in any case that takes large rifle. this way i cut out one variable in my loads. work up from minimum, and keep enough stock that you wont run out if you cant find any for a while.
 
You'll find most on the range for competition with 308's use Varget, N150 (or H4895 and N140) and BR2, CCI200 or Fed GM210M's.

I had nothing but trouble trying magnum primers in a 308, even light/slow loads wrecked brass, sure there might be a couple odd loads that will work fine with them but for the rest, stick to regular primers and commonly used powders that have shown great results and you'll have way less headaches.
 
dfraser said:
Hmmm, Where do I read and find out about what is considered "Hot" or "Mild", How would I know as a beginner?

Thanks Ganderite
Click to expand...

Easy, any load data you find will list a starting charge and a maximum charge. Somewhere in between will be the sweet spot for your particular gun.

For my .308, I loaded 4 each with a close to starting charge, middle of the range charge and upper range charge for each powder that I have.

Made it easy to quickly eliminate about half of them from future consideration.

Now, I'll concentrate on the rest and try finer adjustments to find that elusive just right combination.

Which is one of the best things about reloading. :rockOn:
 
dirtybarry said:
Easy, any load data you find will list a starting charge and a maximum charge. Somewhere in between will be the sweet spot for your particular gun.

For my .308, I loaded 4 each with a close to starting charge, middle of the range charge and upper range charge for each powder that I have.

Made it easy to quickly eliminate about half of them from future consideration.

Now, I'll concentrate on the rest and try finer adjustments to find that elusive just right combination.

Which is one of the best things about reloading. :rockOn:
Click to expand...

I think the OP was asking about "mild or hot" primers, not powder weights.

I usually make up a few at starting loads, a few with an extra grain, and a few with an extra two grains. With that said, take everything you read, EVEN FROM RELOADING MANUALS, with a grain of salt. I was trying out some W760 with my .338-06. Long story short I fired off the first 10 rounds I made up at the starting loads, with pressure signs. The remaining 20 rounds that had more powder in them than the first 10 needed to be pulled. Because the .338-06 has a really long neck, the bullets were a b***h to get out with a bullet-puller. After that ordeal I think when I'm working up a new load I'll start a grain below the starting charge, because I hate pulling bullets!
 
Prairie Plinker said:
I think the OP was asking about "mild or hot" primers, not powder weights.

I usually make up a few at starting loads, a few with an extra grain, and a few with an extra two grains. With that said, take everything you read, EVEN FROM RELOADING MANUALS, with a grain of salt. I was trying out some W760 with my .338-06. Long story short I fired off the first 10 rounds I made up at the starting loads, with pressure signs. The remaining 20 rounds that had more powder in them than the first 10 needed to be pulled. Because the .338-06 has a really long neck, the bullets were a b***h to get out with a bullet-puller. After that ordeal I think when I'm working up a new load I'll start a grain below the starting charge, because I hate pulling bullets!
Click to expand...

My bad. I've only ever used Federal match primers in order to eliminate a variable. Using magnum primers where not specifically called for is beyond my paygrade.
 
dfraser said:
Hi all,

I am using the Lyman Reloading Handbook as a step by step guide, using their recommended parts.

I cannot find the primer they used in the 308 section (Remington 9.5), all sold out, wondering if it is okay to swap out with another from the list in the primers section of the book?

Is there anything that I should be paying attention to by swapping primers?

Regards
Click to expand...

dfraser

All the information in the reloading manuals are "ball park" figures because firearms and reloading components vary. Many of the Lyman manual loads are fired with a universal receiver and a pressure test barrel. And the pressure test barrel bore is at minimum SAAMI dimensions (a tight bore) and it will generate the highest chamber pressures.

If a specific firearm is listed in the manuals then a strain gauge is glued to the barrel, and calibrated with a cartridge of a known pressure and the reloading data is gathered. When I reload I average the start load of several manuals and start there with the reloading components I have on hand and work up a load. If I have a load already and any component is changed the manuals tell you to reduce the powder charge by 10% and work up again.

Below is from Quickload software and also "ball park" figures but if combined with a chronograph it can be tweaked to give very close estimates.

Below is the same exact load and the only thing that was changed was the cartridge cases, and their internal capacity. The top chart is for a Lake City cartridge case with 30.6 grains of H2O case capacity and the bottom is for a case with 28.0 grains of H2O case capacity. And this changed the chamber pressure by approximately 6,000 psi and by changing cases without reducing the load and working up again it could put you over the max rated pressure.

308_zpsf81bb4cc.jpg


288_zps26698a67.jpg


Bottom line I have never had any problems with starting at the suggested start with "any" component. But if you change any component you reduce the powder charge and workup again. With the powder and component shortages it doesn't pay to take shortcuts trying to save powder and bullets and jeopardize your safety.

Below is the most extreme example I have ever seen in Quickload and all that was changed was the bullet from the Hornady 55 grain FMJ-BT to a 55 grain Hornady GMX bullet with the same powder charge as above.

QL-1_zpsmenn9onw.jpg


Another example with the .223, the max load for a .223 in the Hornady manual with 55 grain bullets is 23.2 of H335 and the Sierra manual lists 27.5 grains of H335 as max with their same weight bullets. All the manuals are guesstimates for load data so start low and workup your loads and learn about your rifle and the components you are using.

Below I needed more Remington 7 1/2 primers for my AR15 rifles but all I could find at the time were CCI BR4. So you can see below at a maximum load changing components could cause problems. Be safe


3CCIBR4_zps20b88c85.jpg


5Remington75_zps2b532d7c.jpg
 
Last edited:
As usual bigedP51 has excellent advice, I do the same thing as him, look at 6 or 7 manuals I have, throw out the lowest, and work up from an average for the powders I wish to use.
A good rule of thumb for primers is standard large rifle, I use CCI 200 and WLRP, up to about 55 grns of powder and after that I use magnum primers. I also use magnum primers when using ball powders as I never know the temps my loads may be used in.
There was a great thread here a couple years back about primer intensities, maybe someone with greater computer skills could bring it back up for you. I think (but am not positive) it was Ganderite.
 
Wow, what a great post, bigedP51

Thanks for all this insight in one post!

Learned something new again!

That is a great way to look at all the manuals, c-fbmi. I should do that because I have a bunch of loose sheets of different companys putting their testing.


Thanks
 
Very good read and where the primer photos came from in my post above.

Primers - Large Rifle Primer Study
A Match Primer Study in the 30-06 Cartridge
By Germán A. Salazar
http://riflemansjournal.########.com/2009/06/primers-large-rifle-primer-study.html


Primers - Small Rifle Primer Study
A Match Primer Study in the 6BR Cartridge
By Germán A. Salazar
http://riflemansjournal.########.com/2009/06/primers-small-rifle-primer-study.html
 
I would recommend not to go below minimum loads shown in your reloading manual, there are a lot of variables not enough powder can give you detonation but if you are new stay to published loads, primers don't stress use what you can find, different primers do act differently I have had a primer change cut group size in half same brass powder and bullets loaded and shot at the same time.
 
dfraser said:
Wow, what a great post, bigedP51

Thanks for all this insight in one post!

Learned something new again!

Thanks
Click to expand...

Thank you, next week I will be showing you how to mount a MagnetoSpeed chronograph to a No.4 Enfield rifle.

IMG_26371_zpsobliujgm.jpg


I learned this method while staying at your Possum Lodge in Canada.

"If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy." ...

Red-Green_zpsbbxh4dot.gif
 
bigedp51 said:
Thank you, next week I will be showing you how to mount a MagnetoSpeed chronograph to a No.4 Enfield rifle.

IMG_26371_zpsobliujgm.jpg


I learned this method while staying at your Possum Lodge in Canada.

"If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy." ...

Red-Green_zpsbbxh4dot.gif
Click to expand...

LOLOLOL, Hahahahaha
 
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