SxS with open sights?
- Thread starter Bishopus
- Start date
- Location
- Saskatchewan
yup, It's a kinda dumb question for the following reasons:
- a SxS will cross fire if the barrels are not specifically regulated for one load. Regulating is tedious, and VERY expensive trial and error process. The gunmaker must try, then re-jig and re-braze the barrels after each tweak together, apart, and up/down. Think in terms of $5000 and up as a price point.
- If you want to fire any other slug load ( different slug weight, different speed) that the gun is not specifically regulated for, the sights will be superfluous, groups will be that bad.
It can be done, but I've only seen a couple of european SxS shotguns set up for slug shooting. Very specialized and not normally worth the effort and expense. O/U shotguns are somewhat more commonly made for slugs with sights, but it's a bit easier to get acceptable grouping out of an O/U since vertically strung groups are generally more acceptable to most people than horizontal.
- a SxS will cross fire if the barrels are not specifically regulated for one load. Regulating is tedious, and VERY expensive trial and error process. The gunmaker must try, then re-jig and re-braze the barrels after each tweak together, apart, and up/down. Think in terms of $5000 and up as a price point.
- If you want to fire any other slug load ( different slug weight, different speed) that the gun is not specifically regulated for, the sights will be superfluous, groups will be that bad.
It can be done, but I've only seen a couple of european SxS shotguns set up for slug shooting. Very specialized and not normally worth the effort and expense. O/U shotguns are somewhat more commonly made for slugs with sights, but it's a bit easier to get acceptable grouping out of an O/U since vertically strung groups are generally more acceptable to most people than horizontal.
Bishopus, Martini & Hagn have just what you are looking for. Copy and paste the link, and scroll just less than half way down the page, and look for the Zoli. Less than a grand, as well.
http://martiniandhagngunmakers.com/forsale.htm
Sharptail
http://martiniandhagngunmakers.com/forsale.htm
Sharptail
beretta boy
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Orillia, Ontario
Beretta (Worldwide, not BerettaUSA) lists a 471 Silver Hawk SxS Slug Gun.
12 ga, 3", 22" or 24" barrels, folding adjustable rear leaf sight on raised rib and gold bead ramp front site ( rifle style sight, not shotgun bead) .
12 ga, 3", 22" or 24" barrels, folding adjustable rear leaf sight on raised rib and gold bead ramp front site ( rifle style sight, not shotgun bead) .
No, it's not a dumb question. Anyone with any interest in double rifles has probably entertained the same thought. I know that I toyed with the idea for a few years (!) before I lucked into an excellent-condition Baikal SxS 12 gauge coach gun with exposed hammers. A pair of cheapo plastic-bodied fibre optic sights, intended for a turkey gun, quickly found their way onto the rib, attached using only the two-sided adhesive tape with which they were supplied. Voila....a SxS which can be used with X-Full turkey chokes (printing both barrels close enough together at any reasonable range that the patterns are identical in size and position). When cylinder choke tubes are installed, it prints buckshot loads whose centres are usually within four inches of one another, depending on the load used. Best of all, with some (certainly not all) slug loads, it produces a single group of less than six inches at 75 yards. Challenger slugs in particular print so well that the groups from the two barrels are completely superimposed upon one another. It's one of the most interesting and satisfying DIY gun projects I've ever involved myself with.
Here's the big catch...moving the rear or front sight in order to sight in the gun not only moves the location of the impact point, but also alters the relative position of the impact points of the two barrels. Two slugs that hit five inches apart, with the center of the group, say, a foot left, may wind up eight inches apart but perfectly centered when the rear sight is adjusted in the conventional direction. This is very hard to predict, but becomes less so as you spend the time to experiment. But hey, the project is a cheap one, especially if you start to reload your own slugs (something I have yet to do).
I hope to soon replace the plastic sights with a metal, fully-adjustable set, now that I know that the potential for a useful combination definitely exists.
It always helps to be aware of what the conventional wisdom states (i.e. in this case, it states that you are wasting your time and are doomed to failure
) but it never hurts to experiment and try new ideas. I would also caution that some SxS guns have barrels that point in totally different directions, easily seen when looking down the tubes with the gun broken open. I took pains to locate a specimen which, when "bore-sighted" in this crude fashion, seemed to look more or less at the same point with both sides.
By all means play with the idea. Good luck and keep us all posted.
John
Here's the big catch...moving the rear or front sight in order to sight in the gun not only moves the location of the impact point, but also alters the relative position of the impact points of the two barrels. Two slugs that hit five inches apart, with the center of the group, say, a foot left, may wind up eight inches apart but perfectly centered when the rear sight is adjusted in the conventional direction. This is very hard to predict, but becomes less so as you spend the time to experiment. But hey, the project is a cheap one, especially if you start to reload your own slugs (something I have yet to do).
I hope to soon replace the plastic sights with a metal, fully-adjustable set, now that I know that the potential for a useful combination definitely exists.
It always helps to be aware of what the conventional wisdom states (i.e. in this case, it states that you are wasting your time and are doomed to failure
) but it never hurts to experiment and try new ideas. I would also caution that some SxS guns have barrels that point in totally different directions, easily seen when looking down the tubes with the gun broken open. I took pains to locate a specimen which, when "bore-sighted" in this crude fashion, seemed to look more or less at the same point with both sides.By all means play with the idea. Good luck and keep us all posted.
John
Thanks John, that's exactly what I was thinking about!
I've always wanted an express rifle, but I just don't need a 'real' one. I'm thinking about a sort of woods-range rifle (75 yards max) that handles like an upland gun and has an instant second shot ready. A 12 or 20 double with express sights would be just the thing...
The Baikal route is definitely tempting, but that Beretta double is swanky... I'll have to look at both options. Edit to add: That Zoli is perfect (from Martini & Hagn)--time to talk to my 'banker'...
I've always wanted an express rifle, but I just don't need a 'real' one. I'm thinking about a sort of woods-range rifle (75 yards max) that handles like an upland gun and has an instant second shot ready. A 12 or 20 double with express sights would be just the thing...
The Baikal route is definitely tempting, but that Beretta double is swanky... I'll have to look at both options. Edit to add: That Zoli is perfect (from Martini & Hagn)--time to talk to my 'banker'...
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I installed some sights on a side by side years ago... the owner simply wanted a more accurate sight picture than a single bead at the front. I don't know how well it worked for him.
In a worse case scenario if the barrels shot quite differently, you could simply sight in one barrel and know where to hold for the other. It would just be a smooth bore slug gun with a more accurate sight picture.
In a worse case scenario if the barrels shot quite differently, you could simply sight in one barrel and know where to hold for the other. It would just be a smooth bore slug gun with a more accurate sight picture.
