T2 Garand - Part 1

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Claven2 said:
Guys:

I would suggest everyone tone down on calling for Marstar to be banned or any such foolishness. The CGN admin is perfectly capable of assessing whether any punitive action against a site sponsor is merited.

Hypothetically, Marstar may not have know that they were selling unsafe welded-lugged POS rifles with barrels that are drooping out of alignment with the bore axis and can be unscrewed by hand. In all likelihood they assumed they had good product and acted accordingly. No dealer disassembles their inventory to ensure it's not an unsafe grenade - or at least very few would.

Now that the issues have been pointed out to Marstar be CGNers who did the due diligence of a full tear down and inspection, the best course of action is to judge the dealer in question with their reaction to this very real crisis before anyone gets hurt, loses and eye, a finger, or a life.
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Ah, who got to your ear? Things have become quite passive...being a lover of the freedom of speech, I say let the guys vent! Some of them are out several thousand dollars.
Giving Marstar the benefit of all doubt? Sure, I'll play...
-lets hear an explanation as to how John thought what he was selling were excellent condition T2's of Italian manufacturer?
-when did he discover this wasn't the case?
-when he discovered this, why didn't he stop selling them and recall the others or cause to have such done? If this was done, when was it done?
-as they are (currently) being sold as excellent condition rifles...how does he come to this claim without inspecting them first?
-would an inspection of the rifle to determine its excellence not include looking on the bolt face, extractor, lug bearing surfaces for indication of wear?
In my opinion:
At best John is negligent in his responsibilities (if not legally, certainly morally) to provide the buyer what he purchased, as well as what was advertised. (res ipsa)
At worse, John lied and deceived...it was only the incompetence of his hired contractor, and the diligence of some on this board that revealed the skulduggery.

Bring on the poll I say!
 
klaus enuff said:
I look forward to receiving my rifles. I ordered the matching option and paid extra for hand select. I am a bit surprised at the cost of shipping but it is what it is. After tax and shipping I am looking at just over 2 grand per rifle.

These rifles sold out in less than a day, on the day they were advertised no less. To put it in perspective Wolverine advertised for weeks if not longer for their final cz858 shipment and it sold in a similar time frame. True it was 400 some rifles compared to 200 but it still says something. Both retailers also charged a fair price and didn't gouge when they easily could have.

These rifles sold in the same price range as the James River rebuilt garands and those seem to sell. I don't get the criticisms from some about these Italian guns. IMO way more value and collectibility but to each their own.
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My very first post on the topic. When it was still assumed they could be legitimate albeit over priced and not worth it in some peoples eyes.
 
klaus enuff said:
It will be interesting to see what these turn out to be and their provenance. Thank you purple, flightRN and others for sharing your information and raising valid questions. I will wait and see what the rifles I ordered look like and if not as advertised, worst case scenario they get sent back.
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My second post on the matter. Hard to be more fair to Marstar than I am at this point.
 
klaus enuff said:
So what is the verdict so far? Are these or are they not T2 rifles? Seems to me that it is looking like they are not.

Interesting that the one poster said his rifle is full of cosmoline suggesting it did indeed come from storage and is not a "commercial" rifle newly made up for export. But the markings don't match the known T2 markings.
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My 3rd post. Still not jumping on Marstar. Still giving the full benefit of the doubt.
 
klaus enuff said:
So I just got off the phone with johnone. I post the following with his permission: these were built for the dutch on danish marked receivers around the time frame of when the dutch were evaluating different .308 platforms ie ar10 etc, to decide what to go with. These rifles were never shipped and went into storage. They went to Germany for a complete teardown, inspection and proofing.

I don't believe Marstar would lie and cheat people by passing off faked rifles. I do agree that their dissemination of information could be better but I do understand johnone when he speaks about the frustrations of dealing with certain types of people. If you have ever worked retail or sales you will know as I do what he means. There are a lot of good knowledgable people on this forum but it can be hard to tell them apart from some of the other "experts".

I appreciate all those who have added their knowledge to this thread and hope this post helps add to the information on these rifles.
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And what I was told after picking up the phone and talking to johnone directly. I went straight to the source and attempted to bypass all the speculation and give the opportunity to johnone to clear this up. The story I got is impossible to confirm and by being passed on through myself gives johnone plausible deniability that he ever said such a thing. There have been multiple opportunities since for johnone to clear this up once and for all. The fact that he can come into this thread and verbally spar with people over unrelated matters while ignoring what has been proven beyond all doubt and has also been shown to be dangerously unsafe is stunning.
 
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Maybe J1 could personally put a battle pack or 2 of Hirtenberger through one of these welded bolt beauties just to show us how well put together they are. Don't make your staff do it, they don't get paid enough to lose body parts.... would make for a great video lol
 
plinker 777 said:
Ah, who got to your ear? Things have become quite passive...being a lover of the freedom of speech, I say let the guys vent! Some of them are out several thousand dollars.
Giving Marstar the benefit of all doubt? Sure, I'll play...
-lets hear an explanation as to how John thought what he was selling were excellent condition T2's of Italian manufacturer?
-when did he discover this wasn't the case?
-when he discovered this, why didn't he stop selling them and recall the others or cause to have such done? If this was done, when was it done?
-as they are (currently) being sold as excellent condition rifles...how does he come to this claim without inspecting them first?
-would an inspection of the rifle to determine its excellence not include looking on the bolt face, extractor, lug bearing surfaces for indication of wear?
In my opinion:
At best John is negligent in his responsibilities (if not legally, certainly morally) to provide the buyer what he purchased, as well as what was advertised. (res ipsa)
At worse, John lied and deceived...it was only the incompetence of his hired contractor, and the diligence of some on this board that revealed the skulduggery.

Bring on the poll I say!
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Let's get this straight. No one is out anything at this point other than time. You can choose to return it. If anything the only thing people are out is their life safety if choosing to fire one of these guns. Which is unacceptable.

Very poor show. I hope all involved get what they want (no questions refunds) and these guns get disassembled for usable parts by someone competent.
 
tommyinbc said:
I sincerely hope they are not just put straight back up for sale with the same false description....
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That appears to be what happened when some people read about issues and cancelled their Un-shipped orders. They were "all gone", but now back in stock.

I checked the other usual canadian sites and links to this thread and warnings of the issues are posted everywhere. I suspect the pool of ignorant buyers is now very small.
 
So back in stock. Does that mean he is still going to sell them? Some one will buy them that has not seen the history on these rifles. So if that person gets injured using it, in my opinion Marstar would be complissant in causing the injury. I say Marstar because by now everyone there has heard of this fiasco.
 
Claven2 said:
That appears to be what happened when some people read about issues and cancelled their Un-shipped orders. They were "all gone", but now back in stock.

I checked the other usual canadian sites and links to this thread and warnings of the issues are posted everywhere. I suspect the pool of ignorant buyers is now very small.
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I sincerely hope that's the case. I don't want to see anyone out of pocket or ending up in hospital.....
 
I have been with this site a lot of years now. Bought from many of the sponsors here. This is as bad as I have ever seen on this site. I have seen bans for much less than what Marstar has done. Let alone what injuries may happen to folks who in good faith bought these rifles and dont know the faults with them. There are members of other sites that log on here and dont see anything happening with Marstar. What do you think they think if Marstar isn't in the pink or banned after this. I know what I would think and it isn't good. I hope it doesn't come down to dollars in this case with the ownership.
 
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