Do you really want the RCMP involved in this? Not a smart ideas. Remember CZ858 and Swiss arms. Would you like to see a repeat of that? Cuz the liberals would love to ban them all and by saying stuff like this you are giving them that type of power.
T2 Garand - Part 1
- Thread starter Dyspnea
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Do you really want the RCMP involved in this? Not a smart ideas. Remember CZ858 and Swiss arms. Would you like to see a repeat of that? Cuz the liberals would love to ban them all and by saying stuff like this you are giving them that type of power.
Were your above mentioned rifles fakes and deemed unsafe to the shooter as the T2 here? If not it's a different story...
Dear john , ( this is my first dear john letter ;-) )
How are you sleeping these days ? Don't answer I already know .
How's your appetite ? Don't answer we know ....
Stress levels climbing ? We know that too ....
In all seriousness now , please ask yourself if this is worth it .
At this point it's not about money ( for me ! , as I did not buy one ) but when somebody gets hurt your going to sleep even less and possible lose your appetite for the rest of your days thinking about the poor blind bastard now selling pencils on the street corner . Ps. Absolutely no disrespect to our blind community , or John either , but it's time to fix the problem .
Sleep well Ernst
How are you sleeping these days ? Don't answer I already know .
How's your appetite ? Don't answer we know ....
Stress levels climbing ? We know that too ....
In all seriousness now , please ask yourself if this is worth it .
At this point it's not about money ( for me ! , as I did not buy one ) but when somebody gets hurt your going to sleep even less and possible lose your appetite for the rest of your days thinking about the poor blind bastard now selling pencils on the street corner . Ps. Absolutely no disrespect to our blind community , or John either , but it's time to fix the problem .
Sleep well Ernst
To follow up on my post #903, here are some more photos.
As mentioned earlier, the first batch of photos were from the owner.
These ones here are my photos of his rifles.
I took many photos but there is no point in duplicating the views already shown.
Hopefully these give some different insight.
This shows brass shim stock inserted behind the lug.
Each strip is .003" ("three thou") and it was easy enough to insert five pieces for a total of .015" or fifteen thou.
Similar test on left lug
Drill cuttings "swarf" that looks very recent.
One of the three guns had a bolt that was sanded/ground on the side of the left lug.
Also notice the waviness in the area just behind. It looks as though it was given a light belt sanding, then sanded again at a slightly different angle or position.
This gives a distinct pattern when held in direct light.
Close-up of the rear of the right lug.
A couple of weld porosity holes are visible.
Also note the smooth shiny area and the area with straight parallel lines.
We suspect that the weldment is much softer than the ordnance alloy steel, and that the force of the proof round indented the soft lug area against the proper hardness receiver.
In this view, a gouge likely from a belt sander can be seen.
It carved a nick at the base of the lug.
In steel fab terms, this would be considered undercut and is bad because a crack could start there.
When "coping" a beam, it is poor practice to have a sharp corner as it causes stress risers.
As mentioned earlier, the first batch of photos were from the owner.
These ones here are my photos of his rifles.
I took many photos but there is no point in duplicating the views already shown.
Hopefully these give some different insight.
This shows brass shim stock inserted behind the lug.
Each strip is .003" ("three thou") and it was easy enough to insert five pieces for a total of .015" or fifteen thou.
Similar test on left lug
Drill cuttings "swarf" that looks very recent.
One of the three guns had a bolt that was sanded/ground on the side of the left lug.
Also notice the waviness in the area just behind. It looks as though it was given a light belt sanding, then sanded again at a slightly different angle or position.
This gives a distinct pattern when held in direct light.
Close-up of the rear of the right lug.
A couple of weld porosity holes are visible.
Also note the smooth shiny area and the area with straight parallel lines.
We suspect that the weldment is much softer than the ordnance alloy steel, and that the force of the proof round indented the soft lug area against the proper hardness receiver.
In this view, a gouge likely from a belt sander can be seen.
It carved a nick at the base of the lug.
In steel fab terms, this would be considered undercut and is bad because a crack could start there.
When "coping" a beam, it is poor practice to have a sharp corner as it causes stress risers.
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Although we note over 100 pages of "expert" comments we have yet to see one single piece of proof to anything said here.
Pictures are not proof, comments are not proof, slander is not proof, personal attacks are not proof, bulling and sometime outright lies are not proof....
Should someone here, with credentials relative to what they say is more than welcome to e mail me for an honest and productive exchange.
Regards
John
I don't think anyone needs to be an 'expert' to figure out you screwed close to 200 people, just look at Tootall's post just above yours. Does that look acceptable to you ??
5 shims 3 thou each between load bearing surfaces isn't 'proof'?
If it isn't, I don't know what is. They use pictures all the time in courts of law. They even call them evidence. ..
I watched your sales video with the young guy who claimed these were the best garands you'd ever brought into the country? That could be true if they were the only garands you ever brought into the country. ..
For someone who has been in the gun selling business as long as you have to not recognize these are junk is incredible, and a statement towards your business ethics or lack thereof. Congratulations on becoming a detriment to the gun community at large. I sure hope we don't see a real expert on the stand someday because you were too greedy and foolish to pawn these off to people expecting them to be safe, when they are anything but.
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beaver_cheese
Member
Why not directly address the concerns over safety and origin of these rifles raised by the community here where you have a large audience?
Still alive
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
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- Rainy mosquito infested part of BC
There are more than enough Garand experts in the above 1000 posts who do know what they are talking about. And Tootall's pics are pretty damning.
Who do you consider someone with "credentials" to tell you that you are wrong and whom you will believe? The pope? The ghost of John Garand himself?
Sometimes it just has to do with being a man and owning up and taking care of a mistake. You are not anonymous John and the WWW is a big place.
Who do you consider someone with "credentials" to tell you that you are wrong and whom you will believe? The pope? The ghost of John Garand himself?
Sometimes it just has to do with being a man and owning up and taking care of a mistake. You are not anonymous John and the WWW is a big place.
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The welds on he lugs some of which are poorly ground and ALSO ANYONE with a metallurgical background or basic knowledge KNOWS that will ruin the temper of the steel....., the gaps between lug and bearing surface- INSUFFICIENT bearing contact proven with pics ....The fact someone consulted a gunsmith who also said that's an unsafe condition... a barrel that could be screwed out by hand...... MORE PICTURES PROVING the claims.. The fact you stated they were T2 garands in storage for years and they have been PROVEN to not be. FALSE ADVERTISING-- Is that sufficient evidence? You either got duped yourself and think everyone else is too stupid to realize it and you passed the buck- which is bad enough-- or you are continuing to defend the indefensible with weak attacks and failing to address any pertinent questions or concerns that have been asked here over and over. It's almost unbelievable your attitude and demeanor on here. You're either completely incompetent, totally ignorant and oblivious-- or totally without any morals (I would have said just business morals but since these things could injure or KILL a buyer I say that goes beyond business morals) and think people are stupid enough to give you the benefit of the doubt when you have long past that point and burned that bridge yourself. Narcissistic, ignorant hubris. You're attacking others, ignoring and deflecting YOUR OBVIOUS faults. Unbelievable. Well, it's good you don't care how much business you'll lose-- but word of mouth and media this day and age goes along way-- your reputation will continue to tarnish due to your own failings. "Pictures are not proof" -- Are you that naïve- pictures of wares YOU sold of the condition they are in that is NOT what they were described as-- guess what- That, is EXACLTY what a court would use as proof. Are you kidding yourself? It's well past the time you could have saved any semblance of a reputation by manning up and making things right. The more you say, the less you do-- the more you look as nothing but a charlatan.
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Dear sir: if you would kindly advise what proof you would consider adequate to confirm that porous weldment on bolt locking surfaces is an unsafe condition, then I am certain that standard can be met.
Similarly, if you can advise what proof you require that the gauge standard for m1 (and tippo 2) bolt contact area to avoid gauging reject is 80%, than someone can readily post the Milstd for your review.
Hard to provide proof sufficient to satisfy you when you have not advised what the goal line is before you will concede a recall to be appropriate. Would an injured shooter serve as sufficient proof? Can we agree it should not come to that?
Not just porosity. Undercut. Poor weld profile (i.e. not ground and feathered properly) causing stress risers. Lack of pre and post weld heat treatment. Heat affected zones. The hardness of these bolts is compromised, as is their structural properties. Some of them don't even make 50% contact! If the bolts survived more than a few boxes without shearing the lugs off I'd be surprised. I'm a weld inspector working on numerous Canadian and American nuclear facilities, but in John's eyes I'm sure that doesn't qualify to inspect poor welds on firearms!
And again, he's still got his back up. Absolutely disgusting behavior for a firearms business.
And again, he's still got his back up. Absolutely disgusting behavior for a firearms business.
GunsNotPuns
CGN frequent flyer
John, you've inspired me. Although I did not buy one of these rifles -- which "are NOT to be confused with inferior commercial conversions" -- I would like to place a wager. As you have offered other critics in the past a bet, I feel like this will be acceptable to you.
The terms will be simple. I will wager $1,000 that the T2 Garands are not as you de facto continue to describe. None of your contributions to this thread have actually argued the contentions that people have made and all of the original text on Marstar's web site continues to promote your original position on the quality and provenance of these rifles. Therefore I will accept that the accusations made in aggregate (with the exception of you sourcing receivers from TradeEx) -- are true. I will also presume that your position is that these collectable rifles are from Italy, built on Italian receivers, in storage for five decades, have Italian proof marks, were not modified by a commercial gunsmith and have none of the sub-amateurish modifications and issues that posters in this thread have documented.
The winner will decide where the loser's $1,000 will go provided that the recipient is a Canadian gun advocacy group -- my designated group will be the CCFR -- and I assume you will opt for the CSSA. The winner will also keep his $1,000.
If you wish to accept this wager please indicate so in this thread. If you wish, both of our wagers can be placed in escrow with a trusted third party that is acceptable to us both.
The terms will be simple. I will wager $1,000 that the T2 Garands are not as you de facto continue to describe. None of your contributions to this thread have actually argued the contentions that people have made and all of the original text on Marstar's web site continues to promote your original position on the quality and provenance of these rifles. Therefore I will accept that the accusations made in aggregate (with the exception of you sourcing receivers from TradeEx) -- are true. I will also presume that your position is that these collectable rifles are from Italy, built on Italian receivers, in storage for five decades, have Italian proof marks, were not modified by a commercial gunsmith and have none of the sub-amateurish modifications and issues that posters in this thread have documented.
The winner will decide where the loser's $1,000 will go provided that the recipient is a Canadian gun advocacy group -- my designated group will be the CCFR -- and I assume you will opt for the CSSA. The winner will also keep his $1,000.
If you wish to accept this wager please indicate so in this thread. If you wish, both of our wagers can be placed in escrow with a trusted third party that is acceptable to us both.
Hi John
Would you be ok with me posting our email communication so that everyone can see what an "honest and productive exchange" with you looks like?
- Location
- East of Home, West of the Rest
Pictures aren't proof??? Guess the courts will have to stop following the rules of evidence and cease accepting pictures in court as evidence. Tootall's pictures aren't proof?
There are plenty of people in this thread with credentials in the firearms industry, armourers and credible sources that have examined these guns first hand and can give expert opinions.
Proof. Not bullying. Not sure why a business has to hide behind emails. Be open. Be accountable.
Gotto love how a rifle (garand in general not specifically these ones) that were made in such numbers fetch such an expensive price. Im sure if it wasnt for all those "best gun in world, hollywood told me, and when it finishes it goes clinggggg" types, the guns would be selling for less than a grand. Lets hope the korean ones that are supposed to start flooding the american market actally do and trickle across the border.
- Location
- pallisers triangle
well sir, i would ask you where are your credentials? selling surplus firearms for how ever long does that make you an "expert"? id have to say no seeing what the pictures posted here look like.
people keep saying maybe you were "duped" thats BS as im sure you knew what was going out the doors, and that in turn tells me what kind of "expert", and" credentials "you have or they wouldnt have gone out the door.
personal attacks, and bullying ,you are a master at that.
pictures are worth a 1000 words, ever hear that one? pictures are used in court all the time
outright lies? T2 garands for sale recently assembed, on dutch recievers, with unmarked bbls, stored 50 years,yes id say so
email for a productive exchange? sure why not
How about YOU prove these rifles are Terni made and stored for the last 50 years. You must have some correspondence with the Italian Gov you can share to confirm this right?
Or how about YOU get out with one of these returned rifles that show 15% lug engagement total and fire off 100 rounds to show us how safe they are?
Your word is not proof, your word is worth nothing, you have proven that at least beyond any shadow of doubt.
So what are you going to do? Put up, or shut up?
And for the record, in this thread alone there are Garand experts, there are gunsmiths, there are metal fabricators and engineers, all pointing out and condemning the flaws and safety concerns with the welded/ground improperly fitting bolts..... then there is you, the "expert" that says they are all full of ####.
Oh waaiiit, I get it.... you think YOU are the victim here in all this! That this is just a witch hunt lynch mob out to get you for no reason at all! Wow, you are really losing your ####. How can you still not understand the issues at hand? Nobody is slandering you, people have been trying to HELP you from the beginning of this mess so you don't lose face, lose respect from the community, and even so you don't lose your business? Are you that stubborn that you can't admit mistake and do the right thing by your customers...for their safety, and the safety of your business?
Maybe you should voluntarily withdraw advertising and posting on CGN while you are at it too, if you think everyone is out to get you and have no trust or faith in the CGN community here.
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If he was honorable he'd have shown so by now. The fact he keeps up the shtick he has is almost unbelievably pathetic. ZERO accountability- ZERO ethics-- You can tell much of a man from those sort of actions. I will never do business with them again, and I'm glad I didn't actually buy one of these before I saw the EVIDENCE of what Marstar is up to. He should rightly lose his business. Petulant, irresponsible, deceitful liar of a child is what he has shown himself to be.
Why would you need his permission to do this??
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