The Tipo 2 rifles were rebuilds on existing receivers so its possible to expect any make of US or Italian made parts on them. The bolt on this one is a very common -12SA Springfield Armory bolt. The laser engraved "CIP" barrel marking is a real head-scratcher though. I don't think people were using lasers all that much 40-50 yrs ago.
T2 Garand - Part 1
- Thread starter Dyspnea
- Start date
- Status
The s/n angle was me checking if they had any, which was only done by the Danes on their rifles after they had them. If it had a serial number, it would mean it was built for Denmark and sent there, then at some point sent back to Italy to be used in "trials rifles for the Dutch". Which again would make zero sense.....lol.
Would look like this...
http://4.bp.########.com/-Qpw6NmEYxBk/VKBohQ1sNYI/AAAAAAAARMk/v0hhwBMcJEw/s1600/DSCN6271.JPG
So I got an unexpected delivery earlier tonight. Thought I would get a shipping notice email but I guess not.
Brief unboxing inspection results:
Rifle #1: rear site windage adjustment does not work, PB marked stock, nice matching wood with maybe some difference in tone but acceptable. Shiny bore. Front site on straight. 7.62mm 2 marked op rod.
Rifle #2: rear site windage does not work, MT marked stock, matching wood as above with maybe less colour tone differences. Also shiny bore with straight front site. 7.62mm 2 marked op rod.
Rifle #3: again rear site windage does not work, MT marked stock, perhaps best wood of the three. Some areas in bore show discolouration or roughness? but no rust and overall very good condition. Front site on straight. 7.62mm 2 marked op rod.
Overall thoughts: at first look rifles appear to be in excellent condition, wood has little to no dings, nothing obviously wrong or damaged jumped out at me. Final detail strip and inspection remains to be done but it appears I got what I ordered; matching and hand select. Questions about provenance aside I am happy with what I received. Price to my door was just over 1900.00 per rifle.
Purple, you seem to be the most knowledgeable about these rifles, can you please make an inspection list of details you would like me to check? I will conduct a fine detail strip and inspection over the next couple of days and hopefully be able to add some info about these rifles for everyone.
Brief unboxing inspection results:
Rifle #1: rear site windage adjustment does not work, PB marked stock, nice matching wood with maybe some difference in tone but acceptable. Shiny bore. Front site on straight. 7.62mm 2 marked op rod.
Rifle #2: rear site windage does not work, MT marked stock, matching wood as above with maybe less colour tone differences. Also shiny bore with straight front site. 7.62mm 2 marked op rod.
Rifle #3: again rear site windage does not work, MT marked stock, perhaps best wood of the three. Some areas in bore show discolouration or roughness? but no rust and overall very good condition. Front site on straight. 7.62mm 2 marked op rod.
Overall thoughts: at first look rifles appear to be in excellent condition, wood has little to no dings, nothing obviously wrong or damaged jumped out at me. Final detail strip and inspection remains to be done but it appears I got what I ordered; matching and hand select. Questions about provenance aside I am happy with what I received. Price to my door was just over 1900.00 per rifle.
Purple, you seem to be the most knowledgeable about these rifles, can you please make an inspection list of details you would like me to check? I will conduct a fine detail strip and inspection over the next couple of days and hopefully be able to add some info about these rifles for everyone.
The windage sight might just need to have the circular inner nut loosened a little. If it's installed too snug, the windage knob will not turn. I doubt any military would assemble them this way, but it's at least fixable.
It's unfortunate that many of you are "ok" that these rifles are apparently not what they were advertised because you were just looking for a "shooter" anyway.
But we see thread after thread of posters accusing dealers of gouging the Canadian firearms consumer when comparing to US prices.
..and many of you wonder why the abuse continues?
But we see thread after thread of posters accusing dealers of gouging the Canadian firearms consumer when comparing to US prices.
..and many of you wonder why the abuse continues?
Just pointing out the facts and the obvious. Unfortunately it seems lost on you.
Well I received my hand select one this afternoon and immediately set about compiling a photo essay of my rifle.
Not one but two cameras sh!t the bed on me, conspiring to curb my enthusiasm.
Not to be daunted, I went about it anyhow with my trusty iPhone.
http://smg.photobucket.com/user/moosanah/slideshow/Milsurps/Marstar Garand
First up would be packaging:
Marstar shipped out my rifle in a hard case, concealed under cardboard.
Great eh? I thought so too, until I opened the case to see the two bayonets I also ordered poorly wrapped alongside the rifle.
Both bayonets no doubt bounced their way from Marstar to Calgary gleefully rubbing up against my otherwise as-new Italian queen, turning a Gorgious mint stockset into f&cking crap.Honestly Gobsmacked at this point.
John, if you read this, you need to grab someone's nuts over this and give them a good f&cking yank around your shop.
The stock is 'MT' marked at the right side rear of the butt, with an internal 'SILE' marking on inside barrel channel near the front sling swivel.
With the exception of a deep cut and gouge in the pistol grip, and areas where the bayonets and sling dry humped the wood, the stockset is/was new.
Metal:
Going over the rifle, around half of the parts are Italian P.B. marked, with the 7.62 clip insert marked B.R.
Notable exceptions to this is the Op rod which is S.A. And '7.62mm 2' Marked.
Other parts such as the Front sight and gas cylinder group, rod follower, and lower band are not marked.
The barrel has no identifying marks with the exception of a CIP over N near the muzzle, forward of the gas port.
The receiver is marked on the right side with 'Hauck .308Win ITDE CIP over N with a symbol that looks like three crowns in a shield BG'
There is a light slathering of cosmoline on most of the metal, with the exception of being none inside the barrel.
About mid way down the barrel there was considerable rust build up which looks as though there is considerable pitting after an initial cleaning.
After inspection, I'm not sure what to believe.
Some of the items are running counter to it being a parts gun - or if it is a put together, it was completed quite some time ago.
- Cosmo pretty much everywhere with none in the barrel - this is not a rifle that has just come out of long term storage that was done properly. The Cosmo that is on the exterior of the barrel and other spots have caked to a varnish. And the fact the rust in the barrel has created pitting points to both being there for some time.
- rear sight was incorrectly installed. Both windage and elevation are not working, leading me to believe it was slapped together by someone that didn't know what they were doing (with respect to a Garand sight).
I'd find it hard to believe that a rifle coming out of a factory like Beretta / Breda would incorrectly install a rear sight, but who knows.
- rear handguard showing signs of slight damage by the band, and the band is slightly contorted, most likely from an installation using improper tools.
If this rifle didn't have the shipping and barrel damage that it does, I'd say it was worth close to the advertised price (I think $1500 would not be too much of a stretch), but not worth the premium I paid for a Tipo 2.
I'm more disappointed with the damage to the stockset and barrel than I am over the origin, but regardless I'll be sending this one back.
If not satisfied return it for a full refund.... John
This.
I think people will be interested to hear all that they can about these rifles. I'm most interested in the receiver and barrel markings. To this point all we have seen on barrel markings is the laser style "CIP" markings. Military barrels are invariably marked an the right side, but many have additional markings on the top which can only be seen after removing the rear handguard.
Good advice. There is a relationship between the elevation knob and the windage knob to get a properly functioning rear sight. It's important for the screw in the center of the elevation knob to be tight. Many are not. To fix this put a strip of leather or equivalent around the elevation knob to protect the finish. Grasp it solidly in a pair of pliers and turn down the center screw tightly with a proper fitting screwdriver.
The Italian and US made elevation knobs fit and work well assuming that they are serviceable. There are Chinese knock-offs in circulation with look-alike US GI markings and I've been stuck with a few of them. Some are also made to a metric spec. These ones can be forced together, but they just won't work.
Well I received my hand select one this afternoon and immediately set about compiling a photo essay of my rifle.
Not one but two cameras sh!t the bed on me, conspiring to curb my enthusiasm.
Not to be daunted, I went about it anyhow with my trusty iPhone.
http://smg.photobucket.com/user/moosanah/slideshow/Milsurps/Marstar Garand
First up would be packaging:
Marstar shipped out my rifle in a hard case, concealed under cardboard.
Great eh? I thought so too, until I opened the case to see the two bayonets I also ordered poorly wrapped alongside the rifle.
Both bayonets no doubt bounced their way from Marstar to Calgary gleefully rubbing up against my otherwise as-new Italian queen, turning a Gorgious mint stockset into f&cking crap.
The stock is 'MT' marked at the right side rear of the butt, with an internal 'SILE' marking on inside barrel channel near the front sling swivel.
With the exception of a deep cut and gouge in the pistol grip, and areas where the bayonets and sling dry humped the wood, the stockset is/was new.
Metal:
Going over the rifle, around half of the parts are Italian P.B. marked, with the 7.62 clip insert marked B.R.
Notable exceptions to this is the Op rod which is S.A. And '7.62mm 2' Marked.
Other parts such as the Front sight and gas cylinder group, rod follower, and lower band are not marked.
The barrel has no identifying marks with the exception of a CIP over N near the muzzle, forward of the gas port.
The receiver is marked on the right side with 'Hauck .308Win ITDE CIP over N with a symbol that looks like three crowns in a shield BG'
There is a light slathering of cosmoline on most of the metal, with the exception of being none inside the barrel.
About mid way down the barrel there was considerable rust build up which looks as though there is considerable pitting after an initial cleaning.
After inspection, I'm not sure what to believe.
Some of the items are running counter to it being a parts gun - or if it is a put together, it was completed quite some time ago.
- Cosmo pretty much everywhere with none in the barrel - this is not a rifle that has just come out of long term storage that was done properly. The Cosmo that is on the exterior of the barrel and other spots have caked to a varnish. And the fact the rust in the barrel has created pitting points to both being there for some time.
- rear sight was incorrectly installed. Both windage and elevation are not working, leading me to believe it was slapped together by someone that didn't know what they were doing (with respect to a Garand sight).
I'd find it hard to believe that a rifle coming out of a factory like Beretta / Breda would incorrectly install a rear sight, but who knows.
- rear handguard showing signs of slight damage by the band, and the band is slightly contorted, most likely from an installation using improper tools.
If this rifle didn't have the shipping and barrel damage that it does, I'd say it was worth close to the advertised price (I think $1500 would not be too much of a stretch), but not worth the premium I paid for a Tipo 2.
I'm more disappointed with the damage to the stockset and barrel than I am over the origin, but regardless I'll be sending this one back.
Well that don't look right.....grinding on the front bolt lugs? Certainly a recent "fitting" issue....
Well that don't look right.....grinding on the front bolt lugs? Certainly a recent "fitting" issue....
Is this bolt from one of the Marstar "Tipo 2" rifles? What are the markings on the bolt if I may ask? I've handled a lot of Garands and never saw bolt lugs ground that way. Grinding the surfaces of bolt lugs is a bad idea as it removed the surface hardness of the metal and gets into the softer metal below.
Yeah, check his photo gallery.
http://smg.photobucket.com/user/moosanah/slideshow/Milsurps/Marstar Garand
Kind of confirms recently built....by amateurs lol.
Almost 2k for what was not advertised is appalling and I can't believe nobody is really that mad?
- Status
