T2 Garand - Part 1
- Thread starter Dyspnea
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Appears so. I don't have the tools to check headspace on this, and quite frankly it doesn't matter as it is going back.
More photos added.
http://smg.photobucket.com/user/moosanah/slideshow/Milsurps/Marstar Garand
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It truly is, I'm just as shocked at the people that LIKE what they received because they look pretty....more money then brains it seems. Oh well, ain't my money, and won't be sending them any ever again. Judging by John's comments CGN members don't even pay 2 staffs salary so he doesn't really give a #### anyway.
Unless the barrel is not breeched properly, I can't think of ANY reason to lap or polish the front of the bolt lugs. That's really odd. It looks like they also removed a little materiel from the bolt face collar outer diameter - perhaps to address a tight fit against the breech end of the barrel? Dunno.
Odd for sure.
But if it survived the German proof house without lug deformation, it should be physically and materially fine. Just unusual that it was done is all.
polishing of the rear of the lugs is not unusual. On a commercial barrel with a nice, tight bore - it's sometimes preferable to lap in a bolt than to scrape the chamber.
Ya, well, lets just say I'm sceptical at the the claims in the sales ads.
Looking closer at that bolt, is the left side luck not undercut like it was ground over into the bolt body past the original shoulder? If so, YIKES!
Looking closer at that bolt, is the left side luck not undercut like it was ground over into the bolt body past the original shoulder? If so, YIKES!
Aside from your obvious hatred for johnone do you have any skin in this game at all? I am still collecting information and weighing the evidence but your mind seems to have been made up very early on. Your bias contributes nothing to the effort to prove or disprove what these rifles are or are not.
I will admit there is enough to make me have my doubts but until I have fully examined the rifles in my possesion and conducted my research I will refrain from making a definitive statement. If need be I will exercise the option of Marstars "Ironclad Guarantee" and send them back.
Leave the insulting comments to johnone. The fact you have stooped to that level says a lot about you and your character. If you have nothing of value to add to this thread other than your vendetta against johnone please refrain from posting.
And to johnone: if you can find the time to come into this thread and make denigrating posts it should not be too much to ask of you to make a single definitive post that would answer some very legitimate questions that have been raised and end all this speculation. I believe you can do so without revealing your confidential trade contacts to your competitors.
I will admit there is enough to make me have my doubts but until I have fully examined the rifles in my possesion and conducted my research I will refrain from making a definitive statement. If need be I will exercise the option of Marstars "Ironclad Guarantee" and send them back.
Leave the insulting comments to johnone. The fact you have stooped to that level says a lot about you and your character. If you have nothing of value to add to this thread other than your vendetta against johnone please refrain from posting.
And to johnone: if you can find the time to come into this thread and make denigrating posts it should not be too much to ask of you to make a single definitive post that would answer some very legitimate questions that have been raised and end all this speculation. I believe you can do so without revealing your confidential trade contacts to your competitors.
But, but are they not doing you a favour being in business? and sell you their overprized stuff.
The only and real problem is our Canadian dollar, low or high doesn't matter, the prizes at the dealers go up anyway.
You know this is a discussion board right? Where people discuss things? You HAVE 3 of the rifles in question, you did ZERO research before you bought them, and have no clue what you bought...see your post earlier in this thread:
Is this really a worthwhile review? You also stated that the rear sights on all 3 rifles don't work out of the box and you don't care if the rifle was built by Terni or in the Khyber Pass...for $1900 per rifle? You still want to cling to the BS ad and the BS story about being "built for the Dutch on Danish receivers"? Honesty from a dealer means nothing to you?
Beltfed waited to form an opinion until his rifle arrived, you have two eyes, you can see the bolt was amateurishly ground recently, not 50 years ago. You see how Audet got treated by John when he paid $175 for matching wood and hand select? "Don't like it send it back". They have taken ZERO responsibly for any of this but that's OK with you... because you don't have a clue.
As for my vendetta, I don't hate John, he's a really old dude, and a rude SOB on the board, and he treats people like ####, but it's this business practice of "Ironclad Guarantee" which he thinks should entitle them to misleading ads, charging for services they don't deliver (matching wood color), then literally blame the customer instead of apologize or deliver on what they sold the client (he more or less said Audet was a nuisance, color matched "close enough") and just "send it back". I'd be LIVID if I was you and just forked out close to $6000 based on misinformation to sell parts rifles well above market value. But you keep believing Santa Clause is real buddy. Makes that pill much easier to swallow.
I thought CGN did a better job of vetting the vendors on here. Maybe it's time Greentips takes a closer look at whether Marstar is a good fit with our community. I thought John was told (or volunteered) NOT to post anymore because of how spiteful and rude he was to customers and CGN members...
I am quite aware of the fact that this is a discussion board. And if you feel discussing your vz58 issues and gripes against johnone is relevant to the discussion at hand then fill your boots.
And how do you know what research I may or may not have done before purchasing? And yes, upon a very brief unboxing inspection I was happy with first appearances. You have omitted the part where I say I still needed to do a full detail strip and inspection. I also asked the knowledgeable on here (of whom you most definitely are not) what I should look for. You know, to add to the facts and discussion around these rifles. But feel free to gripe about johnone and your vz58 in this thread. And I'm not clinging to any story, I merely added what I had been told to the discussion. And yes I can see what others have posted and added to the discussion with regards to what they have received. And if the discussion reveals these are less than advertised (and I freely admit the evidence is stacking up against these rifles) then I will send them back. And you can keep spouting off and insulting people. Of that you have much in common with johnone. But swallow what you want and tell yourself you are actually adding to this discussion.
And how do you know what research I may or may not have done before purchasing? And yes, upon a very brief unboxing inspection I was happy with first appearances. You have omitted the part where I say I still needed to do a full detail strip and inspection. I also asked the knowledgeable on here (of whom you most definitely are not) what I should look for. You know, to add to the facts and discussion around these rifles. But feel free to gripe about johnone and your vz58 in this thread. And I'm not clinging to any story, I merely added what I had been told to the discussion. And yes I can see what others have posted and added to the discussion with regards to what they have received. And if the discussion reveals these are less than advertised (and I freely admit the evidence is stacking up against these rifles) then I will send them back. And you can keep spouting off and insulting people. Of that you have much in common with johnone. But swallow what you want and tell yourself you are actually adding to this discussion.
Just looking at the picture of the fubar'ed bolt and I would not trust anything the builder has done. If any bolt needed to be adjusted that much then I would say the rifle is only good for parts and even then some of those may be of little use. J. C. Garand designed the M1 to be mixed matched and work. Headspace would have to be checked but if it was off that much then the bolt or barrel is defective and should be scrapped. I have assembled quite a few of these rifles on the Danish contract receivers and have only had to switch out one bolt to get a proper fitted combination with a used barrel.
I hope you are being sarcastic....
Ok, mine also has a face of the bolt grinded off. I knew it felt a bit to easy to take apart compared to my old SA...
I don't trust this rifle as a shooter or ar as Italian T2 as advertised. Good news is Marstar has a good return policy.
I don't trust this rifle as a shooter or ar as Italian T2 as advertised. Good news is Marstar has a good return policy.
I was able to examine in more detail 2 out of the 3 rifles so far. I only removed the rear handguard on one of them and can confirm what others have already posted; other than the modern CIP proof marking there is a complete absence of any other markings on the barrel. I even tried to look for evidence of grinding to see if they had been "sanitized" but could not see anything obvious. Both barrels seemed to be in excellent, like new condition.
Both bolts have been ground on the lugs in a manner similar to what has been reported by others. The front faces on both have been ground as have the rear except on one bolt where only one of the rear faces of the locking lugs has been ground.
Other parts on the rifles seem to be in very good condition, one was pretty much all beretta marked that I could see except for the bolt and one or two other pieces, the other was still mostly beretta but had more mixed pieces including the bolt. Receivers are both danish marked berettas.
I have been unable to independantly verify the supposed origin of these rifles. I have seen enough however to seriously doubt that these are Terni built T2 rifles as advertised. Ground bolt lug faces, non functional rear sights, lack of markings to markings that do not make sense and chronological time line issues. In the absence of any definitive answers from Marstar (in fact a resounding silence other than denigrating and sarcastic postings that clarify nothing) I must say that I am of the opinion that these are in fact newly made for the commercial market. Perhaps these rifles did come from storage but it is obvious that a lot more than teardown, inspection and proofing happened between storage and retailing.
Unless some new information comes to light to change my mind these rifles are going back.
Both bolts have been ground on the lugs in a manner similar to what has been reported by others. The front faces on both have been ground as have the rear except on one bolt where only one of the rear faces of the locking lugs has been ground.
Other parts on the rifles seem to be in very good condition, one was pretty much all beretta marked that I could see except for the bolt and one or two other pieces, the other was still mostly beretta but had more mixed pieces including the bolt. Receivers are both danish marked berettas.
I have been unable to independantly verify the supposed origin of these rifles. I have seen enough however to seriously doubt that these are Terni built T2 rifles as advertised. Ground bolt lug faces, non functional rear sights, lack of markings to markings that do not make sense and chronological time line issues. In the absence of any definitive answers from Marstar (in fact a resounding silence other than denigrating and sarcastic postings that clarify nothing) I must say that I am of the opinion that these are in fact newly made for the commercial market. Perhaps these rifles did come from storage but it is obvious that a lot more than teardown, inspection and proofing happened between storage and retailing.
Unless some new information comes to light to change my mind these rifles are going back.
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