T97 shooting a little high @ 300 yards

lone ranger

lone ranger

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I am using a bone stock T97 with carry handle.
@ 50 yards with iron sights its a tach driver.
@ 100 yards I am 4 inches high. I can turn the Front sight UP 1 1/2 turns and be dead on......But then I'm 4 inches low @50 yards. ???
It seems the farther out I shoot,...the Higher I Hit. ? You would think it would be the other way around.
I am using the PEEP hole rear sights and they all seem to be the same. I don't use the rear POST, I cant get my eyes in focus with it.
@ 300 yards the windage is great but I'm 4 feet over the target.!
Is all this because I'm using the Carry handle Iron sights ?? I'm stumped.


With my10.5 AR @ 300, I aim about 6inches high to hit the metal tagets. I figured the T97 would be much the same. Boy was I wrong.

Why does this gun shoot higher the farther out you shoot ????
 
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If you're zeroed on 50 yards, you should be +1.5 inches or so at 100 yards, not +4 inches. The T97 has a sight height of around 2.5", I'd like to confirm that but I'm at work. It would cross your zero again at about 200 yards.

The sight height is what causes it to keep going higher but 4 inches seems like a lot.
 
Jaydam said:
If you're zeroed on 50 yards, you should be +1.5 inches or so at 100 yards, not +4 inches. The T97 has a sight height of around 2.5", I'd like to confirm that but I'm at work. It would cross your zero again at about 200 yards.

The sight height is what causes it to keep going higher but 4 inches seems like a lot.
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yes ,zeroed @ 50 yards. yes 4 inches high at 100. I'm lost.
If I put a scope on, will this Fix the problem ??
 
I'm no expert here Sir.
But if you're Zeroing at 50 meters then any rifle will shoot high at further distances until your trajectory of the projectile starts dropping and eventually crosses your inital POA zero line.
It's easier to explain with a simple graph picture.
I zero my A1 style AR15 at 25 meters to be POA to POI with irons. At 300 meters then my projectile will be at the same height as the target at 25 meters after it goes up and starts dropping, if that makes sense.
So the first two things you mentioned makes 100% sense albeit your measurements don't add up exactly but ballparking I know what you're getting at.

Different rifles will have a different effect on a projectiles trajectory due to sight relation to barrel, rifling, length of barrel, ammunition load etc etc

Your last problem about it being zeroed at 50 and still shooting way high at 300 meters seems wierd though.

At some point or another that projectile has to start coming down and will eventually cross your 50 meter target height at some distance lol That is strange though, at 300 meters any .223 projectile should be well on its way down by 300 meters if you zeroed the rifle at 50 meters.

Weird...
 
Hmm. With a sight height of 3", and zeroed at 40 yards... 50 yards is +0.6", 100 yards is +3.2", maxes out at 4.5" at 150-175 yards, and zeroes again at about 270 yards.

Either the numbers are rounded or the distances are not measured correctly. The only way to get +4" at 100 with a 50y zero would be if the sight height was more than 4".

4" sight height, 45 yard zero, +3.7" at 100 yards.
4" sight height, 50 yard zero, +3.9" at 114 metres..

I'm using a BC of 0.151 and 62gr at 3200fps muzzle.. G1 drag.
 
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Jaydam said:
Hmm. With a sight height of 3", and zeroed at 40 yards... 50 yards is +0.6", 100 yards is +3.2", maxes out at 4.5" at 150-175 yards, and zeroes again at about 270 yards.

Either the numbers are rounded or the distances are not measured correctly. The only way to get +4" at 100 with a 50y zero would be if the sight height was more than 4".
Click to expand...

Thanks.
 
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I'm gonna pull this gun apart and see if I can find anything..., not even sure what I'm looking for. But somethings not right.

up date-
Well, that was dope simple. All looked good.
 
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4 feet high at 300yards with a 50m zero seems a little odd, even though I see you have an iron sighted rifle with a very high line of sight above bore,.. plus.. a very short sight radius which combined do cause quite high mid point trajectories with traditional zeroing ranges 25,50,100etc. Are you grouping say into 12",.. with 10 or more rounds at 300m? Are you shooting fro ma bench rest?

Maybe you are only shooting about 1.5 feet high MRD over hold point and you are climbing up your target with the front post( I do it a distance without a horizontal reference)? A barely noticeable front sight higher hold from the last round will cause probably up to 1 foot or more height error over the previous shot at 300meters with that short of a sight radius.

What target type and size are you using at 300m? Is there a definite aim point, horizontal reference point,.. or a just a featureless silhouette like a Fig 11,IDPA, IPSCetc? Are you experienced with open sights at distance?


I've seen myself at just 200m a few days ago get the bulk(22) of my 40 round group the center circle on an IDPA at 200m prone unsupported,10 out to 10"(my normal:mad:) , but then 8 were strung nearly the whole height of the IDPA target body. I'm guessing from old eye fatigue, heat(39 humidex) ,mirage, sweat in the eyes, bright lights from that UFO and the excuses just keep on coming LOL.;)

That's with a 20" AR15 with NM front sight mind you. I could see a very big vertical spread for me shooting your very short radius sight gun at 300 yards. When you see those trick shooters shoot a 2"bbl snub nose .38 revolver at 300 yards, let me tell you about just a micron change in the front sight height and how much higher or lower the next round goes.

Good luck with the Nork and Good shooting.
 
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lone ranger said:
yes ,zeroed @ 50 yards. yes 4 inches high at 100. I'm lost.
If I put a scope on, will this Fix the problem ??
Click to expand...

You know the rear sight apertures are marked for different distances, right?

The large offset between bore and sight line on the T97 can cause lots of difficulty.
 
update- I was getting no where, so I took it back to the vender to see if any other T97;s had this issue. He had me leave it there. he phoned me a few hours later and said Come and get it....ok, that was speedy. I headed over to the shop and picked it up. I asked what they found,...."nothing, but I changed out the rear sight for you. So I headed back out to the range,...targets in hand. Its dead- on... WTF . what was wrong with the other sight ? who knows. Just weird. I put the gun firmly in the "rifle rest" and banged away. 50 yards seemed to be the same as 100 yards this time. so far so good. I headed over to the other part of the range and set up the metal pigs @300 yards. I had to aim about 6 inches low, "way better than 4 feet high" I don't understand it, I don't care, its fixed. Strange little gun.

After thought- The holes in the original sight must have been the wrong diameter. That would make sense. If the peep holes were to large, it would be like shooting with a 300 or 500 yard aperture. Example, using the 500 mark and sighting it in @50.....it would have these results. Problem solved.
 
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bladerogers said:
Those T97 sights are probably one of the worst sight sets I've ever come across :)
Click to expand...

well I'm not sure what was wrong with the original rear sight, but it sure works well now. I find "peep #1" is good up to 200 yards, anything further , you have to use the "# 3peep" .
 
lone ranger said:
update- I was getting no where, so I took it back to the vender to see if any other T97;s had this issue. He had me leave it there. he phoned me a few hours later and said Come and get it....ok, that was speedy. I headed over to the shop and picked it up. I asked what they found,...."nothing, but I changed out the rear sight for you. So I headed back out to the range,...targets in hand. Its dead- on... WTF . what was wrong with the other sight ? who knows. Just weird. I put the gun firmly in the "rifle rest" and banged away. 50 yards seemed to be the same as 100 yards this time. so far so good. I headed over to the other part of the range and set up the metal pigs @300 yards. I had to aim about 6 inches low, "way better than 4 feet high" I don't understand it, I don't care, its fixed. Strange little gun.

After thought- The holes in the original sight must have been the wrong diameter. That would make sense. If the peep holes were to large, it would be like shooting with a 300 or 500 yard aperture. Example, using the 500 mark and sighting it in @50.....it would have these results. Problem solved.
Click to expand...

Just out of curiousity, who was the dealer? Sounds like some great customer service to be had there. (sorry abou the hijack, a T97 may be my next rifle purchase).
 
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