TACCOM 24 Sterling Arms 9mm PCC
- Thread starter greentips
- Start date
For the video itself - I'm skeptical about his claim about fast magazine changes. The latch has a lot of travel and it moves too far forward to make quick drop with a trigger finger. At least how it felt for me, maybe the pistol grip does not fit me.
For the long ported barrel again, I would not be that optimistic as they are trying to sell it. Velocity differences for 9mm through full 18.6 or 12 are so negligible that I don't care really. The quality of the crown is more important to me, how that is done inside that end section I can't say.
Ports they have are kinda... more visually pleasing than functional, I doubt they will work as good as any muzzle break, although I'm curious how much weight you can save at the tip of the barrel with this arrangement. I also don't care about heavy bolt, it is a strange selling point to mention. In blowback you are pretty much fixed with a weight of a bolt unless you want unbearable return spring, so all of them are heavy. What I do care is extractor, that is much more important point to get right and replace.
But overall it feels very solid in hands. I look forward to mp5 mags just because they are metal lips and 2 feed from columns, so they are easier to load. Trigger is good. Stock and grip are potentially all you can imagine it to be.
For the long ported barrel again, I would not be that optimistic as they are trying to sell it. Velocity differences for 9mm through full 18.6 or 12 are so negligible that I don't care really. The quality of the crown is more important to me, how that is done inside that end section I can't say.
Ports they have are kinda... more visually pleasing than functional, I doubt they will work as good as any muzzle break, although I'm curious how much weight you can save at the tip of the barrel with this arrangement. I also don't care about heavy bolt, it is a strange selling point to mention. In blowback you are pretty much fixed with a weight of a bolt unless you want unbearable return spring, so all of them are heavy. What I do care is extractor, that is much more important point to get right and replace.
But overall it feels very solid in hands. I look forward to mp5 mags just because they are metal lips and 2 feed from columns, so they are easier to load. Trigger is good. Stock and grip are potentially all you can imagine it to be.
I will be surprised if this ported barrel with the counterbored muzzle actually sells as non-restricted. How is this different from a pinned and welded muzzle device? I don’t know if the law allows for a non-rifled portion of the barrel to count toward the barrel length. I’d like to be proven wrong, though.
The law ain't that funky... if its integral to the barrel, it counts towards OAL, if it's threaded on/additional, it doesn't count. Pinned and welded is a US thing.
EDIT: Had a chance to go over both the 9mm and .223 in-depth at TACCOM, they're both extremely well thought out and manufactured.
This right here ^^^^
Here is the definition from the CC:
“Barrel length
(2) For the purposes of this Part, the length of a barrel of a firearm is
- (a) in the case of a revolver, the distance from the muzzle of the barrel to the breach end immediately in front of the cylinder, and
- (b) in any other case, the distance from the muzzle of the barrel to and including the chamber,
The important question is: is the counter-bored portion of this barrel with integrated flash hider/brake a “component, part or accessory designed or intended to suppress the muzzle flash or reduce recoil.”? It seems that it is obviously not an accessory, but is it a component or part?
Legally speaking, is a barrel’s muzzle where the rifling stops?
No, it's where the end of the barrel ends, as long as it integral, at least as far as the law is concerned. Do you really think Sterling would be doing this if they weren't sure?
The Swiss Arms rifles are another example - they were non-restricted, with a flash hider that was integral to the barrel, which again counted towards the OAL of the gun.
ATRS Shaun
Business Member Rep.
- Location
- Calgary, AB
You guys are using the term "OAL", when the critical measure is "barrel length" for center fire semi auto. And this does meet the legal requirements.
OAL (think rim fire or manually operated action) can be achieved with a threaded on attachment, and in that respects the magic number is 26" OAL. There are a few minor exceptions to this, but as a quick and dirty rule it works.
Barrel length cannot be achieved with anything other than one continuous piece of metal. The crown has always been the concern for integrally built flash hiders.
I looked really carefully at the crown inside, and it looks good. I'm curious to see how it performs for accuracy, but for balance it was extremely noticeable that the front end of the barrel is lightened up.
Kind of looks like SA stole the show at TACCOM for new releases this year.
OAL (think rim fire or manually operated action) can be achieved with a threaded on attachment, and in that respects the magic number is 26" OAL. There are a few minor exceptions to this, but as a quick and dirty rule it works.
Barrel length cannot be achieved with anything other than one continuous piece of metal. The crown has always been the concern for integrally built flash hiders.
I looked really carefully at the crown inside, and it looks good. I'm curious to see how it performs for accuracy, but for balance it was extremely noticeable that the front end of the barrel is lightened up.
Kind of looks like SA stole the show at TACCOM for new releases this year.
I am not talking about overall length I am talking about barrel length. I was under the impression that, for purposes of the law, barrel length was measured from muzzle (in my mind this is where the rifling ends, in a rifled barrel, but it seems there are varying opinions on this) to the breech including the chamber.
Based on other posts where this discussion was had (https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/for...-integrated-muzzle-brake-flash-hider.2001948/) looks like RCMP has told people it was okay as long as it was one continuous piece of metal.
I mistyped my comment re: the Swiss Arms, I should have said with regards to the barrel OAL, not complete gun.
For the purposes of the law, the barrel length is measured from the breech face to the end of the barrel. If the flash hider or whatever machining is integral to the barrel, then the length is measured to that end, as long as it's 1 continuous piece of material.
AlphaCharlieDelta
Member
- Location
- The Wet Coast
It is a PCC that wont have 10rnd mags because there are no pistol mags that will fit it, and having proprietary or rifle mags (MP5 mags) makes this a 5rnd PCC. I'm not going to pull punches on this, that's just plain stupid with the availability of Glock mags and will be a non starter for most and automatically makes it useless for competition. Hell, make it for sig 320 mags, or M&P, or CZ for god sakes, give it an interchangeable mag well like the Ruger, but alas... Nope. Sterling covered in fail sauce.
As for the barrel, i get it. You see a lot on PCC's in the states with this kind of porting to skirt the SBR laws down there, but the mag lever with a button too far away for trigger finger actuation? That is going to make mag changes slower not faster. Terrible decision Sterling.
All in all I'm disappointed in the R9 offering from Sterling. I was hoping it was going to be a top end product with good support (unlike the Raven) that would make a good competition PCC thats Canadian made... and its not.
As for the barrel, i get it. You see a lot on PCC's in the states with this kind of porting to skirt the SBR laws down there, but the mag lever with a button too far away for trigger finger actuation? That is going to make mag changes slower not faster. Terrible decision Sterling.
All in all I'm disappointed in the R9 offering from Sterling. I was hoping it was going to be a top end product with good support (unlike the Raven) that would make a good competition PCC thats Canadian made... and its not.
SAI intends to market a "Pistol" version in the USA. Therefore, 10-rd, proprietary "R9 Pistol" magazines will be made available. Not so much fail after all, eh??
AlphaCharlieDelta
Member
- Location
- The Wet Coast
That doesn't mean that those magazines will not be prohib in Canada and need to be pinned to 5rnds. Using a magazine that is already in the marketplace ensures that wouldn't happen. Still a fail.... For now
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b-wingpilot
CGN Regular
- Location
- Sherwood Park
3 (1) Any cartridge magazine
• (a) that is capable of containing more than five cartridges of the type for which the magazine was originally designed and that is designed or manufactured for use in
o (i) a semi-automatic handgun that is not commonly available in Canada,
Sadly, 10rnd mags for this will be prohib unless the handgun ban is ended. It can’t be argued that the pistol version is “commonly available” in Canada when only a very select few people could purchase them.
No…. As the barrel is one continuous piece, you measure from one end to the other.
We ran into this with the Swiss Arms rifles: the muzzle device was machined as part of the barrel and that is how the rcmp measured it…. We’re good to go with how we are achieving our 18.6”
AlphaCharlieDelta
Member
- Location
- The Wet Coast
Nope I didn't... and that's why its not competition centric. Its too close to the trigger guard and will probably result is a DQ as some RO will probably call you out for a finger near the trigger guard. If the finger can be seen through the trigger guard its too close to the trigger.
Trust me, I REALLY wanted this to be a good competition option. Like REALLY REALLY... but that mag release is no bueno. And if the rifle comes out before a "10rnd pistol mag designed for a pistol" then it will wind up being prohib, which limits to 5rnd only mags... again no bueno. Should have just done an available mag on the market.
