Taking a antique into the US ??
- Thread starter Newby
- Start date
- Location
- St. Paul AB
Nope, sorry. The last I checked with the BATF, even if it qualifies as antique (pre-1899) in the U.S., it still needs to go on a Form 6NIA. When I posed the OBVIOUS question to the BATman, he agreed with me (OTR of course). A fellow I shoot BPCR Silhouette with has an antique status Rolling Block and an antique status Hepburn, and they still have to go on his Form 6 when they travel.
Same with me
, when I contacted the ATF 
- they telephoned me back, rather than put anything in writing ! 
Last time I did this about 1 year ago I declared my antique handgun at the US border, gave me dirty looks, showed them my paper work, they inspected the gun, verified the gun's status themselves, searched my truck and then was on my way.
These days it is a hit and miss thing at the border. It is Homeland Security that are handling it now and things have changed. Paper work from Canada including antique status in Canada and Identification of Articles for Temporary Exportation Card from Canada Border Services only show that you own the the item and that it is antique status in Canada. You will need to give US Homeland Security at the border a dam good reason why you are taking said item into their country. Their concern is why do you need to cross the border with the gun; your answers could be to
1) Display at a gun show, you will need to have a letter from the event inviting you to come attend their event and bring such items.
2) Shooting event, this willl mean that the gun is capable of operating and this may raise other questions as to where are you get the ammo, powder ect.
If they do not accept your reasons or your paperwork they can turn you around and you will be red flagged in their system as being refused entry in the USA. Of course you never want to say you are conducting business there unless you are Green Carded or have TN type visa.
Even with paperwork from BATF&E this will not always ensure that you will be able to cross with the firearm, both departments don't seem to work together.
There is another question that will be asked is "What is the value of the firearm?" There are restristions as to the value of the item you will be importing into the country.
Remember some guns can fall under the "Cultural Artifacts and Cultural Property" restrictions.
At one time the BATF&E really didn't want to give any paperwork for bringing antique firearms into the country but now you should insist on it.
I know people will say that this is the way they have been doing it and there has been no problem and I for one have not had any problems with taking antiques into the States but I know a number of people over the past 6 months that have and have been turned around.
I guess the short answer to the question is have an Antique Letter for Canadian CFO.
Identification of articles for temportation Form CBP Form-4457 *Y38(05)*
Letter from BATF&E which should be approved before crossing the border. Don't wait until you are at the border to obtain this as you could be there for a while.
1) Display at a gun show, you will need to have a letter from the event inviting you to come attend their event and bring such items.
2) Shooting event, this willl mean that the gun is capable of operating and this may raise other questions as to where are you get the ammo, powder ect.
If they do not accept your reasons or your paperwork they can turn you around and you will be red flagged in their system as being refused entry in the USA. Of course you never want to say you are conducting business there unless you are Green Carded or have TN type visa.
Even with paperwork from BATF&E this will not always ensure that you will be able to cross with the firearm, both departments don't seem to work together.
There is another question that will be asked is "What is the value of the firearm?" There are restristions as to the value of the item you will be importing into the country.
Remember some guns can fall under the "Cultural Artifacts and Cultural Property" restrictions.
At one time the BATF&E really didn't want to give any paperwork for bringing antique firearms into the country but now you should insist on it.
I know people will say that this is the way they have been doing it and there has been no problem and I for one have not had any problems with taking antiques into the States but I know a number of people over the past 6 months that have and have been turned around.
I guess the short answer to the question is have an Antique Letter for Canadian CFO.
Identification of articles for temportation Form CBP Form-4457 *Y38(05)*
Letter from BATF&E which should be approved before crossing the border. Don't wait until you are at the border to obtain this as you could be there for a while.
How ?...
Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives
Office of Public and Governmental Affairs
99 New York Ave. NE
Mail Stop 5S144
Washington, DC 20226
Not saying you can't get turned away by the border guards because they don't like the colour of your hair but the following are Homelands and ATF's actual official policies on the topic. Homeland makes reference to dealer but ATF makes no such distinction to non resident aliens. Again been down this road succesfully, not sure if I would chance it again based on how subjective these guys can be. Anyways you don't need a form 6nia just bring solid proof it's antique and hope for the best.
From Homeland and Security website https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/de...rements-for-importing-new-or-antique-firearms
"If the firearm you intend to import is an antique and was manufactured in or before 1898, the dealer does not have to submit the Form 6 to ATF, however you must be able to prove to CBP that it was manufactured during that period. CBP will accept a certificate of authenticity or bill of sale with the year the firearm was manufactured as proof of age. If the firearm was manufactured after 1898, the dealer has to submit the Form 6 to ATF for approval to import the firearm.
If the firearm is at least 100 years old or more and you can provide proof of age, the firearm will be eligible for duty-free treatment under the antique provision in the Harmonized Tariff Schedule "
From ATF Guidebook of importation of Firearms http://www.atf.gov/firearms/guides/importation-verification/how-to-use.html
"ATF Form 6 Parts I, II, 6NIA & 6A Exemptions
No approved ATF Form 6 is required to import any antique firearm, as that term is defined in the GCA
and the NFA. 27 CFR 578.115(c).
NOTE: you may need to supply proof to Customs to establish that a certain firearm, which is not
marked as being manufactured in or before 1898 is an antique firearm as defined in Federal law."
The reason for importation Roadking mentioned are reason for non resident alien to enter with a 6nia.
"1) Display at a gun show, you will need to have a letter from the event inviting you to come attend their event and bring such items.
2) Shooting event, this willl mean that the gun is capable of operating and this may raise other questions as to where are you get the ammo, powder ect."
Since an antique is exempt from all form 6 variants these reasons are irrelevant. Again not saying border agent won't think they are the only reasons, but honestly there are other legitimate reasons.
"At one time the BATF really didn't want to give any paperwork for bringing antique firearms into the country but now you should insist on it" I am curious what paperwork the ATF is providing as there is no official form for antiques or policy that states such documentation is required, and we all know the bureaucracy does crap all without an actual form. Could it be, the reason for their reluctance is because no existing policy, official ruling or federal law requires it, rather it's just to appease confused border agents? What do phone them up and say "I know neither US federal law, Homeland Security, Department of State or your agency's(ATF) policies require any documentation other than prove antiquity status to import an antique firearm but could you give me a letter so the half wit at the border is sufficiently obfuscated with your impressive letterhead"?
From Homeland and Security website https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/de...rements-for-importing-new-or-antique-firearms
"If the firearm you intend to import is an antique and was manufactured in or before 1898, the dealer does not have to submit the Form 6 to ATF, however you must be able to prove to CBP that it was manufactured during that period. CBP will accept a certificate of authenticity or bill of sale with the year the firearm was manufactured as proof of age. If the firearm was manufactured after 1898, the dealer has to submit the Form 6 to ATF for approval to import the firearm.
If the firearm is at least 100 years old or more and you can provide proof of age, the firearm will be eligible for duty-free treatment under the antique provision in the Harmonized Tariff Schedule "
From ATF Guidebook of importation of Firearms http://www.atf.gov/firearms/guides/importation-verification/how-to-use.html
"ATF Form 6 Parts I, II, 6NIA & 6A Exemptions
No approved ATF Form 6 is required to import any antique firearm, as that term is defined in the GCA
and the NFA. 27 CFR 578.115(c).
NOTE: you may need to supply proof to Customs to establish that a certain firearm, which is not
marked as being manufactured in or before 1898 is an antique firearm as defined in Federal law."
The reason for importation Roadking mentioned are reason for non resident alien to enter with a 6nia.
"1) Display at a gun show, you will need to have a letter from the event inviting you to come attend their event and bring such items.
2) Shooting event, this willl mean that the gun is capable of operating and this may raise other questions as to where are you get the ammo, powder ect."
Since an antique is exempt from all form 6 variants these reasons are irrelevant. Again not saying border agent won't think they are the only reasons, but honestly there are other legitimate reasons.
"At one time the BATF really didn't want to give any paperwork for bringing antique firearms into the country but now you should insist on it" I am curious what paperwork the ATF is providing as there is no official form for antiques or policy that states such documentation is required, and we all know the bureaucracy does crap all without an actual form. Could it be, the reason for their reluctance is because no existing policy, official ruling or federal law requires it, rather it's just to appease confused border agents? What do phone them up and say "I know neither US federal law, Homeland Security, Department of State or your agency's(ATF) policies require any documentation other than prove antiquity status to import an antique firearm but could you give me a letter so the half wit at the border is sufficiently obfuscated with your impressive letterhead"?
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What APU is stating from Homeland Security is correct if you are a US citizen importing a firearm into the US. I don't believe this covers a non US citizen.
"Could it be, the reason for their reluctance is because no existing policy, official ruling or federal law requires it, rather it's just to appease confused border agents? What do phone them up and say "I know neither US federal law, Homeland Security, Department of State or your agency's(ATF) policies require any documentation other than prove antiquity status to import an antique firearm but could you give me a letter so the half wit at the border is sufficiently obfuscated with your impressive letterhead"?
This is where the problem always starts with the "confused border adgent" he or she does not always know all the rules so they will just seize your passports and send to the ATF office at the border where you will discuss your issue with the ATF agent which usually takes time. Sometimes they will just ask what you have and if this satifies them you are on your way, but if for example you have 1894 Winchester they will check to see if it was manufactured before 1898, but if you have a Snider with antique status letter from Canada, that will usually satify them. Remember this can all take time.
The more paperwork you can show the Border Adgent the easier it will be.
The ATF did attach a form to my Articles for Temporary Exportation Card once stating they had inspected the guns and it was ok to enter the US with them.
"Could it be, the reason for their reluctance is because no existing policy, official ruling or federal law requires it, rather it's just to appease confused border agents? What do phone them up and say "I know neither US federal law, Homeland Security, Department of State or your agency's(ATF) policies require any documentation other than prove antiquity status to import an antique firearm but could you give me a letter so the half wit at the border is sufficiently obfuscated with your impressive letterhead"?
This is where the problem always starts with the "confused border adgent" he or she does not always know all the rules so they will just seize your passports and send to the ATF office at the border where you will discuss your issue with the ATF agent which usually takes time. Sometimes they will just ask what you have and if this satifies them you are on your way, but if for example you have 1894 Winchester they will check to see if it was manufactured before 1898, but if you have a Snider with antique status letter from Canada, that will usually satify them. Remember this can all take time.
The more paperwork you can show the Border Adgent the easier it will be.
The ATF did attach a form to my Articles for Temporary Exportation Card once stating they had inspected the guns and it was ok to enter the US with them.
Roadking please don't take my rants as personal attacks, nor am I trying to minimize your valued imput and experience. I just find all this mumbo jumbo very irritating plus my wife has me on a diet and I think combo is making extra grumpy these days
I go to about 5 shoots a year in Washington, bringing repro Ml's rifles, pistols and antiques. What I have found to work best for the antiques is to take it to the closest CBSA office, and have them give me a green card for it. This only verifies that I have owned it prvious to my trip. For documentation I carry a letter from the BATF. I also carry a copy of the Washington firearm regulations. The odd Border agent is unsure and after I show them the paperwork and very diplomatically mention that none of them are firearms in their legal definition i.e. I'll say "you don't require an FFL to purchase these"
Be friendly, but be knowledgeable also and you won't have a problem.
A friend of mine was turned back with a ml about 5 yrs ago, the border guard was clearly in the wrong, so I contacted their head office (Arizona IIRC)
they sent a memo to every border crossing about ml
Recently I was talking to someone at the CFC and they sauid the volume of calls are WAY down from the CBSA taking that to mean they are a lot more educated on this subject now.
Be friendly, but be knowledgeable also and you won't have a problem.
A friend of mine was turned back with a ml about 5 yrs ago, the border guard was clearly in the wrong, so I contacted their head office (Arizona IIRC)
they sent a memo to every border crossing about ml
Recently I was talking to someone at the CFC and they sauid the volume of calls are WAY down from the CBSA taking that to mean they are a lot more educated on this subject now.
Might as well put it on the 6N1A... you can't take ammo across the border without it, and what good is the gun then?
That said might as well bring a modern gun now that we are taking this much trouble already. Unless going to a show or event specifically requiring antiques.
That said might as well bring a modern gun now that we are taking this much trouble already. Unless going to a show or event specifically requiring antiques.
The following two sites have got a lot of information wrt importing a firearm (antique) into the US. I guess we have all had our own experiences with the Border and it is interesting to hear what other members have experienced.
Apu, I also value your imput and do not consider it a rant, all good information.
Nessy, your letter from the ATF is what we all should have and I think it was something like that they gave me a few years ago on one of my trips.
I have just found that dealing with the Homeland Security guys has been more involved then it was before.
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/imports.html
https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/986/~/importing-a-muzzle-loading-gun-that-is-considered-an-antique
Importing a muzzle loading gun that is considered an antique
I am a nonimmigrant alien. Do I need a Form 6NIA import permit to import a muzzle loading gun that is considered an antique firearm under the Gun Control Act?
No. Because antique firearms are not considered firearms for purposes of the Gun Control Act, none of the import regulations apply to the importation of antique firearms. Moreover, a nonimmigrant alien may possess antique firearms, even if the alien does not fall within an exception to the nonimmigrant alien prohibition. If you are not sure if your firearm is an antique firearm as defined by the Gun Control Act, contact the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) Firearms Technology Branch at (304) 260-1700.
Apu, I also value your imput and do not consider it a rant, all good information.
Nessy, your letter from the ATF is what we all should have and I think it was something like that they gave me a few years ago on one of my trips.
I have just found that dealing with the Homeland Security guys has been more involved then it was before.
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/imports.html
https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/986/~/importing-a-muzzle-loading-gun-that-is-considered-an-antique
Importing a muzzle loading gun that is considered an antique
I am a nonimmigrant alien. Do I need a Form 6NIA import permit to import a muzzle loading gun that is considered an antique firearm under the Gun Control Act?
No. Because antique firearms are not considered firearms for purposes of the Gun Control Act, none of the import regulations apply to the importation of antique firearms. Moreover, a nonimmigrant alien may possess antique firearms, even if the alien does not fall within an exception to the nonimmigrant alien prohibition. If you are not sure if your firearm is an antique firearm as defined by the Gun Control Act, contact the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) Firearms Technology Branch at (304) 260-1700.
This.
You can legally take an antique into the US if you can convince the border guard of that legality. But you cannot legally possess or purchase ammo for it without the form 6NIA formalities. No problem if you are importing the antique for a show, but if you want to shoot it you need to go the same route as for a non-antique firearm.
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