- Location
- Tucson, Arizona
What is that white stuff on the ground in those pics?
Tale of an Enfield Refurb - step by step story and pictures
- Thread starter louthepou
- Start date
- Location
- West coast of Vancouver Island
John,
I remember when I was a kid we used to have stuff like that fall from the sky. I believe it was called ####, because when my Dad saw it falling he would always say ####.
I remember when I was a kid we used to have stuff like that fall from the sky. I believe it was called ####, because when my Dad saw it falling he would always say ####.
Nah, it's sugar that my friends the elves use to make Xmas cookies. You should have seen Santa's face when Rudolph faked getting shot by Sly_Old_Fox's No1 Mk3. He was quite mad at first but did manage to find it humorous after my hug. Canada isn't what most people think.
Lou
Lou
Very nice job on that musket Lou!
BTW, that .410 was mine and Vimy Ridge's before...
- Location
- Pile of Bones, SK
Lou: Some advice - I would not relieve the butt where it enters the socket as you have. Yes, the Indians often did this out of expediency as it made the wood easier to fit, but it doesn't look as good and it allows water, under the wrong conditions, to get up inside the buttsocket and cause rust. True story: I had never seen the inside surface of a buttsocket in rusted-out condition until I started taking these relieved-type butts off rifles!
If you look at original Brit rifles, you will not that they were hand-fitted for a zero-clearance at the socket. Also, most Brit rifles had the wood blended on both buttsocket and forestock mating surface so there was no wood lip. The Indian wood is rather lazily fitted in that respect.
Cheers.
If you look at original Brit rifles, you will not that they were hand-fitted for a zero-clearance at the socket. Also, most Brit rifles had the wood blended on both buttsocket and forestock mating surface so there was no wood lip. The Indian wood is rather lazily fitted in that respect.
Cheers.
Thanks Claven - I truly appreciate feedback. Makes me wonder though.
I do understand the required tight fit inside the socket, and so between the interior "sides" of the socket and the butt wood, there is zero clearance.
But, I think I remember reading somewhere (maybe misreading!) that there is the requirement for the absence of contact between the back side of the socket and the butt. That is, so that we know for sure that the very forward face of the butt does make contact with the inside, deep face of the socket. I may be wrong of course. Worth investigating...
I'm not sure I understand what you mean by the wood being "blended", if you have a minute, I would really want to fully understand your last paragraph.
Lou
I do understand the required tight fit inside the socket, and so between the interior "sides" of the socket and the butt wood, there is zero clearance.
But, I think I remember reading somewhere (maybe misreading!) that there is the requirement for the absence of contact between the back side of the socket and the butt. That is, so that we know for sure that the very forward face of the butt does make contact with the inside, deep face of the socket. I may be wrong of course. Worth investigating...
I'm not sure I understand what you mean by the wood being "blended", if you have a minute, I would really want to fully understand your last paragraph.
Lou
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Lou, making sure the face of the butt contacts the recess of the socket is a simple matter if you have access to a vernier caliper.
The reason the indians prefered to have a small clearance is twofold:
1) Fitting time is less than halved.
2) Since the late-made indian buttstocks are oversized circumferentially and made of a cheaper less-strong wood than walnut, they did not want the back of the socket flange to split the buttstock under the shock of firing.
By blending, I mean that the back of the forestock was made narrow to the same dimension of the buttsocket so that if you ran your finger over the buttstock, across the buttsocket and onto the forestock, on a well-fitted British Lee Enfield, you would not feel the lip between the metal and the wood. They fitted them to be as close to seamless as possible.
Indian stocked guns are a whole 'nuther matter though!
The reason the indians prefered to have a small clearance is twofold:
1) Fitting time is less than halved.
2) Since the late-made indian buttstocks are oversized circumferentially and made of a cheaper less-strong wood than walnut, they did not want the back of the socket flange to split the buttstock under the shock of firing.
By blending, I mean that the back of the forestock was made narrow to the same dimension of the buttsocket so that if you ran your finger over the buttstock, across the buttsocket and onto the forestock, on a well-fitted British Lee Enfield, you would not feel the lip between the metal and the wood. They fitted them to be as close to seamless as possible.
Indian stocked guns are a whole 'nuther matter though!
Thanks Claven. Fitting a butt will now become even more time consuming. Oh well
I will keep in mind then that the technique and end result does have to take into account the type of wood. In this case, as you mention, the possibility of having some wood chips fly in the shooter's face had to be considered, the wood on that rifle being of the "less than robust" variety, so I feel ok with what I did - even if only by accident
Lou
I will keep in mind then that the technique and end result does have to take into account the type of wood. In this case, as you mention, the possibility of having some wood chips fly in the shooter's face had to be considered, the wood on that rifle being of the "less than robust" variety, so I feel ok with what I did - even if only by accident
Lou
- Location
- Winnipeg,Man.
Thanks Lou....it looks as pretty as the .410 you did for me previous. Keep up the great work. Looking forward to seeing it and shooting it at my range. Never knew that the light colour could look so good.
Thanks WT, I think the .410 may be jealous when she'll have to spare some room for this one I tried to get the same shade, so the pair would match well, I don't know how well that'll turn out since I didn't have the other one to compare side by side... Should be close though.
Claven2, I never specified that requirement when ordering (is the tie-plate you mention the metal part in which the square tip of the butt bolt is inserted? Damn Frenchie who doesn't know all the right English words!).
In the past, the folks at Springfield Sporters have been rather kind with my special requests - asking for a rear sight guard for the right rear sight type, making sure the 4 wood parts were the same type of wood, things like that.
I wonder, though, if from their supplies, if there is any DP wood with the tie-plate. From memory, this past year every DP forend I got for No1 Mk3 came with the brass rod through the "U" shaped metal bracket.
If it came down to finding a very specific part, I'd probably ask Brian to hunt that one down. He is quite helpful when I'm looking for something like "A reasonably good shape stock for a Eddystone-made P14, with the volley sight removed and the remaining hole for it repaired, with handguards of a similar shade of colour..." I can't even start to think about asking a question like that to Numrich...
Lou
I tried to get the same shade, so the pair would match well, I don't know how well that'll turn out since I didn't have the other one to compare side by side... Should be close though.Claven2, I never specified that requirement when ordering (is the tie-plate you mention the metal part in which the square tip of the butt bolt is inserted? Damn Frenchie who doesn't know all the right English words!
). In the past, the folks at Springfield Sporters have been rather kind with my special requests - asking for a rear sight guard for the right rear sight type, making sure the 4 wood parts were the same type of wood, things like that.
I wonder, though, if from their supplies, if there is any DP wood with the tie-plate. From memory, this past year every DP forend I got for No1 Mk3 came with the brass rod through the "U" shaped metal bracket.
If it came down to finding a very specific part, I'd probably ask Brian to hunt that one down. He is quite helpful when I'm looking for something like "A reasonably good shape stock for a Eddystone-made P14, with the volley sight removed and the remaining hole for it repaired, with handguards of a similar shade of colour..." I can't even start to think about asking a question like that to Numrich...
Lou
Lou,
There are 3 different MkIII* forestock re-inforcement variations.
1) These have a forged steel, square-notched insert for the square stock bolt, supplemented with a threaded brass rod through the back of the forestock transversely. There is no wrap-around steel tie-plate like you would see on a No.4MkI stock.
2) These have no provision for the square-tipped stock bolt but retain the threaded brass rod through the forestock as above. There is no wrap-around steel tie-plate like you would see on a No.4MkI stock. These stocks are typical of Indian manufacture from about 1925 to about 1948.
3) These are post-1948 made forestocks from India. No provision for the square-tip buttstock bolt and they have a tie-plate across the back of the forestock like on a No.4MkI stock. There is a brass rod connecting both ends of the tie-plate, peened over to retain the plate.
Now bear in mind, MANY of the SMLE's we have in Canada came out of India, regardless where they were made. The Indians often refurbed the same rifle several times, so any combination of wood can be found on any rifle as things got mixed and matched over there.
PS: there are also sub-variants of the above forestocks depending upon provision for the cutoff, provision for volley sights, transitional models, and profile of the stock's belly between the kingscrew and stock band.
There are 3 different MkIII* forestock re-inforcement variations.
1) These have a forged steel, square-notched insert for the square stock bolt, supplemented with a threaded brass rod through the back of the forestock transversely. There is no wrap-around steel tie-plate like you would see on a No.4MkI stock.
2) These have no provision for the square-tipped stock bolt but retain the threaded brass rod through the forestock as above. There is no wrap-around steel tie-plate like you would see on a No.4MkI stock. These stocks are typical of Indian manufacture from about 1925 to about 1948.
3) These are post-1948 made forestocks from India. No provision for the square-tip buttstock bolt and they have a tie-plate across the back of the forestock like on a No.4MkI stock. There is a brass rod connecting both ends of the tie-plate, peened over to retain the plate.
Now bear in mind, MANY of the SMLE's we have in Canada came out of India, regardless where they were made. The Indians often refurbed the same rifle several times, so any combination of wood can be found on any rifle as things got mixed and matched over there.
PS: there are also sub-variants of the above forestocks depending upon provision for the cutoff, provision for volley sights, transitional models, and profile of the stock's belly between the kingscrew and stock band.
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Thanks! Now I know
I've only seen the forends with tie-plates then - either used DP from India, or new manufactured (probably from India too, and with the tie-plate). Well, on the sporterized ones that I take off the rifles, I've seen lots with the insert, and I may have seen the second type you describe but I'm unsure.
Lou
I've only seen the forends with tie-plates then - either used DP from India, or new manufactured (probably from India too, and with the tie-plate). Well, on the sporterized ones that I take off the rifles, I've seen lots with the insert, and I may have seen the second type you describe but I'm unsure.
Lou
- Location
- West coast of Vancouver Island
Lou,
I also use furniture stripper to remove the dirt and grunge from the stocks. The nice thing about it is that it doesn't remove all the BLO.
Thanks for the update, Happy Yule!
Kevin
I also use furniture stripper to remove the dirt and grunge from the stocks. The nice thing about it is that it doesn't remove all the BLO.
Thanks for the update, Happy Yule!
Kevin
- Location
- Eastern Ont.
I find it ironic, because after WWII, many people where making money
doing sporter (buba) conversions to the enfields, and now we are converting them back.
I was told many hardware stores in the 50's and 60's had surplus
orriginal enfields stacked in wooden barrels and sold for around $30.
Then you ordered a sporter stock from a catalogue or gunsmiths sold full sporterized ones.
I have seen a few real nice ones, but also some ugly ones too.
Alot of deer where taken with Lee enfields.
