Tap & Die Set

HKMark23

HKMark23

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I'm shopping for a Tap & Die set for occasional hobby type use. I've noticed prices for similar looking (to me) sets, vary widely.

I'm looking for recommendations, cautions, brands, advice, etc., even eyer:rolleyes:lls will do if accompanied by advice :D. Whatever I get, it won't see a great deal of use but I'd like what I do get to function properly and not be just frustrating trash either. Reading reviews I see a common complaint with cheap sets is dies slipping inside the handles. This is the kind of thing I'd like to avoid by making an informed choice.

Thanx
 
My advice is; don't buy anything "on sale" like 100pc set from China Tire for $49,95. Buy once and cry once. Be prepared to spend $200+ for modest set made with HSS steel. Smaller taps & dies you can buy latter on as needed. "titanium" (coated), "cobalt" (how much of it? - if any) or "high carbon" steel and others are all junk. There is way, way more aggravation in say brocken tap in the receiver than it's worth those extra money spend on the good set to start with.
 
what are you going to use it for

I picked up a metric set (on sale) princess Auto

Use it often on the car that has all metric bolts just to chase threads when doing repairs
 
HK Mark, x2 on not buying the el cheapo stuff. As you're unlikely to need a lot of sizes, buying decent quality isn't all that expensive. Some hardware stores sell Irwin, which I've found to be pretty good. Bear in mind that if you need "gunsmith taps" (ie 6-48 and 8-40), you will have to get them from Brownell's or Western Gun Parts in Edmonton as these are oddball threads that are probably unique to the firearms business and won't likely be found elsewhere aside from a custom order from an industrial supplier and will cost more than the regular sources.

:) Stuart
 
Guess it depends what you are planning to use it for. If you are going to chase threads, the cheap sets will work. If you are going to do some new threads, the more expensive sets will come into their own. You should get the standard tap, if you need them, you can buy the taper tap and the bottoming tap.
 
Buy the biggest set that Ctire sells, you'll find them all useful at some time or other to fix something around the house.

They are not going to have any of the sizes you need for gun work, so you will have to source those from a real tool supplier. Replace the Ctire ones that you use regularly, with good quality taps and dies.

Better to have a crappy Ctire tap or die on hand to chase out the lawnmower threads when you need it, than to hold out for the day you can afford to drop $2000 plus on a Butterfield tap and die set that covers the same size range.

Cheap tools can be useful, just don't try to make a living with them.

Good quality carbon steel taps have their use too. They will hold a sharper edge than a HSS tap, and if broken off, they can be softened by applying a heated rod or by running a pencil torch across them to draw the temper so that they can be drilled out. Finding decent quality is the key though. You won't get decent ones at a hardware store.

Cheers
Trev
 
Can Tire has the 76 piece set on for $40 about every month and nothing wrong with that set and the only other taps you need are bottoming taps for tapping barrels etc, I found them good enough for all the use you are likely gonna need them for, just tapped a shaft on a Honda motor and no problem, just go slow and have some good cutting fluid.
 
Thanx Guys. I think I've got the idea; dollar for dollar, a small but "quality" set is better than a large bargain set and can be added to as needed.

just having some fun said:
what are you going to use it for
Click to expand...

Well If I had a set in hand right now, the first job I would do would only involve drilling and tapping some aluminum square stock. Its a hobby job for which I'd imagine just about anything would do the trick but, more to the point, I don't want to be limited to soft metal projects or chasing threads just because of the quality of the tools I own.

Thanks to the advice given here, I'll spend my money on a small, high quality HSS set that includes just what I need to get started rather than one of the "attractive looking" $150.00 kits that have 76 pieces or more.
 
Get decent stuff even for the soft metal hobby jobs. I know it sounds odd but the cheap stuff will bind and break sooner in the softer aluminium than it will in steel.

You don't need to buy Butterfield or other high and fancy names either. I've bought a number of taps from KBC that came out of Poland and India for a lot less than the Butterfields or other major US names. And they cut VERY well.

I'll also say that if the taps are well made that there's nothing wrong with the carbon steel for home use. The trick seems to be finding the taps and dies that are correctly and cleanly ground and properley sharpened instead of the usual carbon junk.
 
Thanks to the advice given here, I'll spend my money on a small, high quality HSS set that includes just what I need to get started rather than one of the "attractive looking" $150.00 kits that have 76 pieces or more.
Click to expand...

Whowa :eek: !! My pretentious :redface:, preference for HSS here was a tad premature . I'm not in that league. They don't give em away do they ?

I'll settle for high carbon utility set and select from one of the brands mentioned here. If I were to go with the Irwin set offered on Amazon for half price, ($160.00), would that be good for hobby use ? Can I assume that, should I later decide to work on something requiring it, that a specific HSS tap or die could be purchased that would fit the Irwin handle(s) ?

Thanx again
 
I suggest you buy the smallest set you can find that come with a quality tap driver and die holder. Then you buy on as needed basis. If you buy the taps/dies that you need you can buy top quality without breaking the bank or paying for stuff you'll never use.

All the big sets are nice to look at, but you end up with 75% of the set never leaving the tool box.

peace...
 
IMHO the best option is to buy the taps you require individually and buy the best quality you can afford from reputable suppliers. I regulary purchase specialty HSS taps form a number of suppliers south of the border and have had built up my own specialty set over the years as opposd to spending a lot of money on one hight quality set containing several taps that I am unlikey to use ever.
 
Subbed...

I've read a few posts on finding "gun screw" taps and dies from gun related stores.
I debated picking up a T&D set only to "re-tap" existing gun screws to "common" screw dimensions for convenience...wait a week for a couple of screws or, go to any hardware store (and most gas stations) and get a dozen replacements for a buck...

Good read and, great info...thanks gang
 
The problem with a dozen replacement screws for a buck, is generally, they were made at a cost of less than a cent each, out of material that is not fit for holding a number on a door frame.

That, and that they are generally of a much coarser thread pitch than the gun screws. The finer pitch threads (if properly made) are able to withstand a greater amount of force to shear them (larger base diameter) and are less prone to backing out under vibration (less helix angle of the thread).

There is actually method to the madness. Using a different than standard thread prevents the use of random, low-quality threaded fasteners in high stress locations.

Do you really want to mount a scope using the equivalent of dried cheese to keep it all aligned?
Cheers
Trev
 
Are you suggesting I can't mount optics with deck screws?

Thank you trevj for applying some common sense to my post. Seriously, it's valued advice ESP. if anyone was foolish enough to be inspired to mount a scope that way.

I lose and, have lost, screws for (only one example...)one of my .22's trigger assembly. The threads are only slightly more fine than MS threads and, not as fine a Metric. The .22 is about twice my age and, even with a dab of locktite or, crazy glue, they can still work free. Since removal and, installation are part of routine service, they won't get "tighter". Quite likely, the threads in the receiver are a bit tired too...oversized slightly and, replaced with a "common" (not cheap...) screw is an elegant soloution that, assures a future full of "common" screws that, can be aquired anywhere.
 
Yeah. I see a bit of the logic.

Here's mine though. Gun screws in thread pitches appropriate for scope mounts, etc, are available and pretty cheap when bought in the small kits that Brownells sells.

You can quite easily go a size larger, still in an appropriate screw thread, by spending about 6 bucks on a 36 or 40 pitch tap, and guys far down the road won't be cursing your existence as they try to fit a proper screw to something that has been dinked.

Without dealing with Brownells, you look at sources such as Small Part Inc (aka SPI) or any of the fastener supply outfits, for appropriate threaded fasteners, whether you want slot head screws, hex or Torx, and you get to choose the head style, material specs, and length to suit the job, and do it correctly.

So, no, I don't see it as an elegant solution at all.

In my work life, I have access to three 'decent' hardware sets, several sets of metric and BA taps and dies, sets of number series taps and dies (from 000-120 up to #14) as well as several drawers full of assorted sizes, Helicoil sets, and a bunch more, and we still find ourselves waiting for a tap to come in every now and again.

If you want the job done right, do it right. If you don't mind a hack...

Cheers
Trev
 
HKMark23 said:
I'll settle for high carbon utility set and select from one of the brands mentioned here. If I were to go with the Irwin set offered on Amazon for half price, ($160.00), would that be good for hobby use ? Can I assume that, should I later decide to work on something requiring it, that a specific HSS tap or die could be purchased that would fit the Irwin handle(s) ?

Thanx again
Click to expand...

Buy the tap set from Ctire. It's going to be as good as the Irwin stuff, but available locally.
Get on the KBC Tools mailing list and buy decent taps in sets or singly, to replace the ones you break or use a lot.

For that matter, go to Home Hardware and buy the tap you need for the particular job. I think they stock Irwin. Maybe it's one of the other home stores.

Short version is that the Irwin stuff is still hardware store grade stuff. Suitable for it's intended use (as is the CTire set) but really nothing special.

Try not to get too wrapped up in buying beyond your actual needs, at least at first. Breaking off a 1/4 inch tap that you can buy locally, hurts less than doing same to a brand new Dormer that you waited two weeks for, and paid good money for too.

For home and utility use, the CTire or other hardware store tap and die sets offer good value and allow you to probably have what you need on hand. Not so much for gun work, where you really should try to have the right tools for the job, to save causing misery in the long term.

Cheers
Trev
 
trevj said:
Yeah. I see a bit of the logic.

Here's mine though. Gun screws in thread pitches appropriate for scope mounts, etc, are available and pretty cheap when bought in the small kits that Brownells sells.

You can quite easily go a size larger, still in an appropriate screw thread, by spending about 6 bucks on a 36 or 40 pitch tap, and guys far down the road won't be cursing your existence as they try to fit a proper screw to something that has been dinked.

Without dealing with Brownells, you look at sources such as Small Part Inc (aka SPI) or any of the fastener supply outfits, for appropriate threaded fasteners, whether you want slot head screws, hex or Torx, and you get to choose the head style, material specs, and length to suit the job, and do it correctly.

So, no, I don't see it as an elegant solution at all.

In my work life, I have access to three 'decent' hardware sets, several sets of metric and BA taps and dies, sets of number series taps and dies (from 000-120 up to #14) as well as several drawers full of assorted sizes, Helicoil sets, and a bunch more, and we still find ourselves waiting for a tap to come in every now and again.

If you want the job done right, do it right. If you don't mind a hack...

Cheers
Trev
Click to expand...


You can see a bit of the logic...good enough for me, run with it. What you seem to be suggesting is that it would be ok to tap larger but, maintian the "not available at hardware store" thread pitch. Trev...I do not have access to 3 good sets...I hardly have access to milk! (half hour drive). I find it very difficult to believe that "future guy" would be much happier a fella to find, not only the screws have been replaced but, replaced with the oddball threads of another "gun screw"...I do find it pretty easy to see the smile of future guy when, a screw is required, can be obtained just about anywhere...

To play fair, "Strength of materials" shouldn't be confused with "proprietary" fasteners. The elegance of the soloution is part and, parcel with future guy's woes..."I need a screw, got one" as opposed to "I need a screw...well, with 4-6 weeks delivery..."



As stated, I'm glad you offered your opinion previously to avoid any "camster inspired" readers to try and use self tapping sheet metal screws for scope mounting.
 
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