"Target" bullets on game?

New Camper

New Camper

CGN frequent flyer
Rating - 100%
22   0   0
Location
Lurking in the woods near SFRC.
Has anyone used bullets designed for target use, on medium game animals? Specifically Lapua scenars, but Hornady A-MAX etc results etc interest me. For purposes of discussion, the caliber is not important but for those who wish to know, 6.5mm and 139-140 gr bullet performance on deer especially but for any game that might be encountered in Canada.

I realize that it would not be difficult to merely re-sight my rifle with a load specific to the game, so my question is mostly out of curiosity and if appropriate it'd be good to know that target bullets expand desirably to dispatch cleanly and efficiently, the desired game. The added appeal for this to work is that 139gr scenars with the 4350 load I have are supremely accurate in my 6.5X55, not that a deer is concerned it shoots 0.5moa as opposed to 1-2moa - dead is dead under the typical ranges encountered here.
 
Match bullets aren't made for hunting. They don't expand like a hunting bullet. Mind you, they'll be ok for varmints and there are some shooters who swear by 'em.
"...supremely accurate..." Try the same load using a hunting bullet. The tack driving may not be there, but it'll be close. Loading is done by the bullet weight, not its construction.
 
sunray said:
Match bullets aren't made for hunting. They don't expand like a hunting bullet. Mind you, they'll be ok for varmints and there are some shooters who swear by 'em.
"...supremely accurate..." Try the same load using a hunting bullet. The tack driving may not be there, but it'll be close. Loading is done by the bullet weight, not its construction.
Click to expand...

I made the statement "supremely accurate" bearing in mind, my rifle has an affinity with the particular load. I have shot Hornady SST 140gr, with the point of impact being within an inch from the Scenar POI: SST isn't the best bullet for deer, but is satisfactory from what I have read. Yes, even if the hunting bullet wasn't "supremely accurate", it would easily posess accuracy to take game with hardly a noticeable difference. The construction does remain important: A good hunting bullet will impart most of it's energy on the animal while retaining the necessary weight to reach the vital areas: A 50 grain bullet might be heavy enough to kill a deer, but if it's a Hornady SPSX or even a VMAX, it's a recipe for disaster.

Thank you for the comment: Your reply contained your thoughts/experiences in regards to my question - that is what I desire from anyone who responds.
 
I have used Hornady SST on deer and had the bullets perform in the way a Berger would. The bullet penetrated the rib cage, then totally disintegrated. This was from a 270 at 140 yards, 280 yards, and 40-50 yards. All three deer died almost immediately so they did what they were supposed to do. I have also had the SST pass through, it seems there isn't enough consistency with the SST's.

That being said, I really don't see why match or target bullets would be any less effective. I wouldn't want to use them for dangerous game, or for shots that would require penetrating thick dense bone and muscle to get to the vitals. But a well placed shot will work no matter the bullet construction unless it totally vaporizes at the hide, such as a Vmax or varmageddon, etc....

I have seen the Berger bullets drop deer and moose like nobody's business, as much as I shy away from using them on big game, it's hard to argue with first hand solid proof of terminal performance.
 
Generally bullets designed strictly for target shooting have different jackets than the hunting versions. Most will disintigrate quickly rather than penetrate. Berger make some bullet types in the target/varmint group that work fairly well in both areas. Check your loading manual for the specific bullet you are using and most give a recommendation for target or hunting. In my 6.5mm I use Hornady 120-123 gr. Amax for targets and hunting. Hornady states in their manual that those two bullets are suitable for both.
Just my 2 cents worth
 
With so many high quality, very accurate hunting bullets available, I don't see the need for hunting with target bullets. Unless you are one of the super long range hunting guys, I guess.
 
a manufacturers manual will discuss the intended uses of their bullets. Hornady lists the V-Max as a target bullet for all calibers. The external ballistics you discussed has nothing to do with the terminal ballistic performance of the bullet. I suggest using the right tool for the job and work up another load
 
Thank you all for the input: Without conclusive evidence to the ability of the Scenar to expand and retain most of it's mass, it will remain a question as I have not lost an animal yet, nor do I ever wish for a wounded animal to escape and be wasted. Not sure why I didn't think of it, but an email to Lapua might shed some light on their bullet's game taking suitability. A second reasonable pet load purposely designed shouldn't be difficult to find in the interim or permanent.
 
I would not hesitate to use the 140 bthp hornady on anything that doesn't bite in Canada. I have tested it and several othere "feagle match" bullets against "real hunting" bullets and none of them blew up and they all out performed some "real hunting" bullets. I used real flesh and bone for my tests and subjected them to a worst case scenario.



http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/foru...-lots-of-newspaper-Part-1-Part-2-Part-3-added
 
I can't donfirm through personal experience about the scenars. From what I have they are the LEAST preferred match bullet for hunting. Go to longrangehunting . com and read around over there, they have a few threads "show us your sierra match king, berger, etc etc kills"
From what I have read the scenars are the most fragile match bullet.
Like I said ZERO personal experience with using any of them for hunting
 
Using target bullets to hunt big game can be done, and has been done, but why do it? Even the manufacturers ( with the exception of Berger) do not recommend the practise because results on game will be erratic. Many people will claim complete success but the statistics are not on their side.

Big game hunting bullets are made to deliver reliable expansion, deep penetration, and adequate weight retention with good accuracy.

Target bullets are designed for ultimate precision accuracy, and all other attributes are secondary.

The ultimate in accuracy gets WAAAAY too much attention from people who are primarily gun nuts and not primarily hunters. Just my opinion, but as long as I can get reasonable accuracy I'll take reliable performance IN game over accuracy potential every time!
 
I think when the match bullets work well is at extended ranges, when the bullet has slowed down substantially. It will stay together to ensure good penetration, where as up close I think they would be more inclined to act a like a varmint grenade.
If you go look at one of the show me your ___ kills threads, there are some massive exit holes in a lot of animals.
 
Thank you all for the helpful replies: Today I added some first hand evidence for my question regarding the Scenar bullet. Yes, one shot is limited evidence hardly enough to collate and take to the reviews but I spent the afternoon at the farm and two opportunities arose. First was a groundhog about 100yards, and the damage inflicted on it exceeded the damage I am accustomed to seeing with .224 SPSX or V-max. Granted, they were .040" smaller, but have about 200fps higher velocity. The second is inconsequential, as the target was a starling about 120 yards away on a fence and showed no trauma, aside from falling dead. :confused: ;)

Given the expansion on this one groundhog would suggest that animals taken for meat might best be shot with another bullet, but when opportunity arises I will see if the results on vermin are repeated.
 
I almost exclusively use match bullets for hunting. The Berger VLD and Sierra Matchking mostly. I really don't care about wieght retention personally or how ###y the mushroom or petals are on a recovered bullet(after all, I don't eat the bullets). When I pull the trigger on a game animal, I want to see it drop instantly or at least as quick as possible and I have never had to make a follow up shot or track an animal yet. I have used many hunting bullets on game and my personal experience is telling me that they might even cause more meat damage.
 
CanuckR said:
I can't donfirm through personal experience about the scenars. From what I have they are the LEAST preferred match bullet for hunting. Go to longrangehunting . com and read around over there, they have a few threads "show us your sierra match king, berger, etc etc kills"
From what I have read the scenars are the most fragile match bullet.
Like I said ZERO personal experience with using any of them for hunting
Click to expand...

Actually I heard they have a thick jacket and pencil through often resulting in a recovered bullet that looks like a "J". I have no first hand knowledge or experience with this bullet in a hunting application, I only saw an in depth field test with news papers and cow bones(much like Kman 300) and those were the results.
 
I think most match bullets would perform like a Berger VLD. Essentially they explode inside the animal meaning if you take a solid broadside shot they will drop on the spot. Hitting the shoulder or any other major bone is a terrible idea from what I gather as they won't penetrate them very well. Also there is the potential for lots of meat damage with the fragments depending on where they go since I gather it's kind of varmint grenade-ish once they let go. I did some research on the VLD when I was picking a 6.5mm bullet and came to the conclusion that it would most likely blow massive holes in predators destroying the pelt, and damage quite a bit of meat on caribou as they are not a large animal.

*edit*

Here is a thread I started about VLD performance which should give you some idea of what match bullets will do on large game.

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?834411-Berger-VLD-terminal-performance
 
I have a sample of one, I shot a mulie doe with a 168gr Amax out of my Garand, muzzle velocity ~2600fps. It went through, so I didn't get to recover the bullet, but the internal damage was similar to that from typical hunting bullets at similar velocities. The exit hole was approximately the size of a loonie, so the bullet definitely didn't blow up on the way through.

That said, I wouldn't recommend using a target bullet. I did that one season because I got stuck and couldn't get any bullets that my Garand liked and I had the Amax's on hand. The next season I had 165gr SST's available and used those with success.


Mark
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom