Target shooting with 7mm-08 cal?
- Thread starter Brocolt
- Start date
I have a Remington 700 BDL sniper from the early 80s when it first came out. Using Ken Waters Pet Loads, a little bit of IHMSA and Benchrest treating of the brass, I get 3 shot ONE hole groups at 100 M with 139 Hornady BTSP and 4 inches away, the same thing with 140 Partitions. I can load a 100 gr Hornady to 3450 FPS and group less than 1/2 inch, outside dia., to hunt gophers. The 7-08 was designed for a 140 gr bullet. It does not do well with 162 as it sits too far in the case. In my XP100, I have do not have a magazine. The 162 gr was a more difficlutl load to find but still did 3/4 inch outside at 150M.
Regards,
Henry
Regards,
Henry
This calibre has always interested me, so after reading this thread I decided to run some simulations.
Here is my $0.02 worth.
I have compared 4 different loads.
I have run comparisons using 168gn Berger VLD's loaded as .308 and 7mm-08.
As well I have compared 175gn Berger .308 to 180gn 7mm-08.
For each I used a 30 inch bbl, and COL was held at 2.8 ( I realize this is short for the 180 and 175gn bullets, but I wanted to keep things consistent).
I used quickload and quicktarget unlimited and allowed quickload to choose the best powder for each loading.
I incremented each load so that the load was 0.1gn above the “red zone” for each load. Hopefully by maximizing pressure each bullet will achieve its maximum velocity.
Wind was 10mph from 9 O’Clock
Loads:
.308, 168gn Berger VLD, COL 2.8, H414 48.9gn, 2910 fps, 60,308psi
7mm-08, 168gn Berger VLD, COL 2.8, W760 44gn, 2805 fps, 60,544psi
.308, 175gn Berger VLD, COL 2.8, H414 48.4gn, 2857 fps, 60,290psi
7mm-08, 180gn Berger VLD, COL 2.8, W760 42.3 gn, 2695 fps, 60,544psi
The things that stand out to me is that there is not much difference between the 168 gn bullets and the heavier bullets as far as drop or wind drift. I read an article by Brian Litz in precision shooting mag, where he studied both the Berger 168gn and 180gn VLD bullets in 7mm, as I recall he did not find much difference either if both were fired under similar conditions.
The .308 and 7mm-08 really do not differentiate from each other until you get well past 500 yards. At 1000 yards there is at least a 2MOA less drift for the 7mm bullets.
As a result I am not in a hurray to build a 7mm-08, and I can see where if you want the 7mm bullets to offer a significant advantage you will need to push them into the 3000+ fps velocity range
Velocity Graph
Drop (Path)
Wind Drift Graph
Here is my $0.02 worth.
I have compared 4 different loads.
I have run comparisons using 168gn Berger VLD's loaded as .308 and 7mm-08.
As well I have compared 175gn Berger .308 to 180gn 7mm-08.
For each I used a 30 inch bbl, and COL was held at 2.8 ( I realize this is short for the 180 and 175gn bullets, but I wanted to keep things consistent).
I used quickload and quicktarget unlimited and allowed quickload to choose the best powder for each loading.
I incremented each load so that the load was 0.1gn above the “red zone” for each load. Hopefully by maximizing pressure each bullet will achieve its maximum velocity.
Wind was 10mph from 9 O’Clock
Loads:
.308, 168gn Berger VLD, COL 2.8, H414 48.9gn, 2910 fps, 60,308psi
7mm-08, 168gn Berger VLD, COL 2.8, W760 44gn, 2805 fps, 60,544psi
.308, 175gn Berger VLD, COL 2.8, H414 48.4gn, 2857 fps, 60,290psi
7mm-08, 180gn Berger VLD, COL 2.8, W760 42.3 gn, 2695 fps, 60,544psi
The things that stand out to me is that there is not much difference between the 168 gn bullets and the heavier bullets as far as drop or wind drift. I read an article by Brian Litz in precision shooting mag, where he studied both the Berger 168gn and 180gn VLD bullets in 7mm, as I recall he did not find much difference either if both were fired under similar conditions.
The .308 and 7mm-08 really do not differentiate from each other until you get well past 500 yards. At 1000 yards there is at least a 2MOA less drift for the 7mm bullets.
As a result I am not in a hurray to build a 7mm-08, and I can see where if you want the 7mm bullets to offer a significant advantage you will need to push them into the 3000+ fps velocity range
Velocity Graph
Drop (Path)
Wind Drift Graph
It is an excellent caliber and there a good match bullets available.
I would prefer the same case necked down one more notch to 6.5mm, witha deep throat to take those long 140 gr bullets.
I have 3 of them, but they got the Ackley treatment to increase powder capcity. they launch the 142 Sierra at 2900. Run that through your computer.
I would prefer the same case necked down one more notch to 6.5mm, witha deep throat to take those long 140 gr bullets.
I have 3 of them, but they got the Ackley treatment to increase powder capcity. they launch the 142 Sierra at 2900. Run that through your computer.
The 7mm-08 was invented for rifle silhouette, back when it was a wildcat. As these matches are shot out to 1000 meters/yards, and as the people winning wouldn't use inaccurate rifles and cartridges, it will work just fine as a LR target round. - dan
BigUglyMan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- New Scotland
Fullbore silhouette is shot out to 500 meters.
The 7mm-08 is just about everything that the 308 is and more (WAY more) than the 243. It recoils less than the 308 but hits essentially as hard (important when you're trying to knock a 50 lb ram silhouette off the rail with a headwind). There are excellent match bullets available for it.
The 308 and 7mm-08 are essentially peas in a pod.
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
For the same amount of recoil, the 7-08 will drift less and hit harder at distance.
High BC bullets help in this arena and the 7mm is significantly better then the 308.
However, the 260 beats them both with less recoil. BUT it will burn up a barrel faster. For the case volume, the 6.5mm is pretty much the ideal cal.
The 243 will definitely eat the barrel the fastest but bullets don't have a high BC to catch up - most VLD bullets don't like going much over 3200fps so a bigger case doesn't necessarily gain you much.
No free lunch.
Jerry
High BC bullets help in this arena and the 7mm is significantly better then the 308.
However, the 260 beats them both with less recoil. BUT it will burn up a barrel faster. For the case volume, the 6.5mm is pretty much the ideal cal.
The 243 will definitely eat the barrel the fastest but bullets don't have a high BC to catch up - most VLD bullets don't like going much over 3200fps so a bigger case doesn't necessarily gain you much.
No free lunch.
Jerry
Bum, I distinctly recall shooting matches in Arizona in the 70's out to 1000 yards, and I thought that was the standard. May just have been a state thing though. - dan
George Farquharson bought one of the first 7mm-08's to show up in Kamloops (Remington 700 BDLVarminter) and shot it quite a bit, informally (the "F" class didn't exist yet). He drove 168's to over 2700 as I recall. Of course, George was pretty fearless when it came to load developement so he got the most out of it!
I got a reamer for it at about the same time and re-barreled a Model 70 for Bob Hobbs with a Hart heavy varmint taper barrel. Bob found the rifle to be a bit too heavy forward to shoot prone with a sling so he didn't use it much until the advent of "F" class shooting. I would like to have shot a long range match with it to try it out but never did. If I was to build one for myself, I would throat it longer, I think, to seat the 168's out a bit.
It was always my feeling, and still is, that the 7mm-08 wouldn't quite shoot as well as a 308. In metallic silhouette, the difference is not so great that it matters all that much but in "F" class, it might. Regards, Bill.
I got a reamer for it at about the same time and re-barreled a Model 70 for Bob Hobbs with a Hart heavy varmint taper barrel. Bob found the rifle to be a bit too heavy forward to shoot prone with a sling so he didn't use it much until the advent of "F" class shooting. I would like to have shot a long range match with it to try it out but never did. If I was to build one for myself, I would throat it longer, I think, to seat the 168's out a bit.
It was always my feeling, and still is, that the 7mm-08 wouldn't quite shoot as well as a 308. In metallic silhouette, the difference is not so great that it matters all that much but in "F" class, it might. Regards, Bill.
bulldog284
CGN Regular
- Location
- pigeon hill
i dont understand why there are no companys that offer this round in a heavy barrel i have 3 of them and everyone of them are very very accurete,
Remington used to, the VLS was available in 7mm-08 for quite a while, as was their straight varmint model. 40x was available in this caliber as well, now that I think about it. - dan
