Paletiger13
Regular
- Location
- Nashville,TN
who are some of the companies building for IWI in the US? That info could me helpful.
Tauras Tavor
- Thread starter greentips
- Start date
Paletiger13
Regular
- Location
- Nashville,TN
Oxford Polymers?
Its FMS for your info.
The Taurus TAVOR is not for US civilian sale - but for South American and other military sale that it is not expedient to use a Israel made weapon.
We at KAC have a relationship with Taurus, and we had been in talks with them about the SR16E3, however the Tavor is stupid cheap to build - and thus for most countries without a M16FOW history the Tavor is about 1/3 to 1/4 the price of a M16 system.
The Taurus TAVOR is not for US civilian sale - but for South American and other military sale that it is not expedient to use a Israel made weapon.
We at KAC have a relationship with Taurus, and we had been in talks with them about the SR16E3, however the Tavor is stupid cheap to build - and thus for most countries without a M16FOW history the Tavor is about 1/3 to 1/4 the price of a M16 system.
There were both stickers at the factory AFA I remember, FMS and FMF. Different way of spending money apparently.
As for being cheap to build, it is one of my beefs with IWI. Their sales price to us does not reflect the obvious low price of construction. It is basically one big injection molded lump with a few simple to machine sub assemblies.
Pulled from the DOD website:
FOREIGN MILITARY SALES
The FMS program is the government-to-government channel for selling U.S. defense equipment services, and training. Sales in FY 1995 were approximately $9.1 billion. Responsible arms sales further national security and foreign policy objectives by preserving regional stability in areas important to U.S. interests through ensuring balance of military forces, strengthening U.S. bilaterial defense relations, and reducing incentives to acquire weapons of mass destruction. National benefits derived from these sales include an improved balance of trade, sustainment of highly skilled jobs, and generation of revenue for U.S. companies. DoD benefits from FMS through enhanced coalition capabilities of U.S. friends and allies, as well as extension of production lines and lowering of unit costs for key weapon systems, such as the M1A2 tank, F-16 aircraft, AH-64 (Apache) helicopters, and F/A-18 aircraft.
FOREIGN MILITARY FINANCING
FMF is the primary U.S. government financing arm of military assistance. Congress appropriates funds in the International Affairs budget and the Department of Defense executes the program. The majority of FMF grants are designated to meet the continuing security needs of allies in the Middle East, but funding is also provided to assist defense development, counternarcotics, and demining efforts. FMF grants in FY 1995 totaled $3.154 billion, roughly equal to the FY 1994 level. After funding Israel and Egypt ($3.1 billion) and other earmarked programs, the less than $32 million in discretionary FMF funding was distributed to Jordan, counternarcotic country programs, Haiti, demining, and the Baltic Peacekeeping Battalion. Greece and Turkey received market rate loans through FMF.
As for being cheap to build, it is one of my beefs with IWI. Their sales price to us does not reflect the obvious low price of construction. It is basically one big injection molded lump with a few simple to machine sub assemblies.
Pulled from the DOD website:
FOREIGN MILITARY SALES
The FMS program is the government-to-government channel for selling U.S. defense equipment services, and training. Sales in FY 1995 were approximately $9.1 billion. Responsible arms sales further national security and foreign policy objectives by preserving regional stability in areas important to U.S. interests through ensuring balance of military forces, strengthening U.S. bilaterial defense relations, and reducing incentives to acquire weapons of mass destruction. National benefits derived from these sales include an improved balance of trade, sustainment of highly skilled jobs, and generation of revenue for U.S. companies. DoD benefits from FMS through enhanced coalition capabilities of U.S. friends and allies, as well as extension of production lines and lowering of unit costs for key weapon systems, such as the M1A2 tank, F-16 aircraft, AH-64 (Apache) helicopters, and F/A-18 aircraft.
FOREIGN MILITARY FINANCING
FMF is the primary U.S. government financing arm of military assistance. Congress appropriates funds in the International Affairs budget and the Department of Defense executes the program. The majority of FMF grants are designated to meet the continuing security needs of allies in the Middle East, but funding is also provided to assist defense development, counternarcotics, and demining efforts. FMF grants in FY 1995 totaled $3.154 billion, roughly equal to the FY 1994 level. After funding Israel and Egypt ($3.1 billion) and other earmarked programs, the less than $32 million in discretionary FMF funding was distributed to Jordan, counternarcotic country programs, Haiti, demining, and the Baltic Peacekeeping Battalion. Greece and Turkey received market rate loans through FMF.
Last edited:
Anyways CanAm, here is the Taurus SAF. (Hint, hint)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTBBoAsFhKs&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=voiqtHvcz2I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTBBoAsFhKs&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=voiqtHvcz2I
I had never heard of either formally until they mentioned it at IWI. Apparently the auditors from the US are very strict and watch ever part to account for the cost, etc. There are bright stickers all over the factory to make it clear which guns are FMF, FMS and for export.
Paletiger13
Regular
- Location
- Nashville,TN
I have to stop reading threads like this, I'm starting to see Tavors in my soup now.
There is the understatement of the century.
Has IWI given any indication what their actual cost to manufacture is, even a ballpark number? It can't be much more than $500.
Paletiger13
Regular
- Location
- Nashville,TN
If that was the case then I shouldn't have any issues building one. Pffft great now it's in my coffee too.
- Location
- Port Perry/Toronto
It's too bad that IWI doesn't realise that it's that high cost coupled with a crap optic that really prevents the tavor from taking off. If they could sell the tavor with just a rail for $2000-2500 sales would explode for it.
I can work out the numbers. But it really means nothing in the end. A Glock costs $65 to build, but it is what we pay for it that counts.
Oh I know that, just curious.
Hell, I was making SIG 550 bases that sold for $225, lord knows they don't cost that much to make.
Last edited:
The straight up material and labour cost of a gun like the Tavor is likely $200-$400. But when you add R&D, mold amortization, tooling costs, etc, etc. That is where the real cost comes in.
IWI really has no interest in the civie market. We got in at the right time. They are now concertating on mil only and are repidly expanding to meet demand. India alone could be 1 million guns, likely locally produced by a cash cow for IWI.
As for the Mepro, I discussed this at length with them. They know full well the limitations. The Tavor as shipped is really designed for urban warfare and as such the M21 works well for them, they say. Their biggest concern seemed to be that the M21 does not need batteries and was more reliable. It may be that they have found issues with dead batteries in service.
Last edited:
The battery free operation is a big plus on the MEPRO but my biggest issue is with the dot washing out. I would think that shooting from inside a dark building, out into the day light would happen a lot in urban combat.
