Tavor ammo review

[Caleb314]

Here it is. Don't let this completely scare you away from all cheap ammo as most of the stuff we have available is not going to hurt your rifle other than you're not going to get the accuracy your rifle is capable of getting with higher quality ammo.

It's a long read but is worth it.

http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/brass-vs-steel-cased-ammo/

They talk about barss and steel cased ammo as well as copper and bi-metal jacketing.

Bi metal jackets have increased wear only when coupled with a very hot barrel ( steel in the barrel softens as it heats and the steel jackets become comparatively harder and therefore more wear). They mag dumped 10 000 rounds using 30 round mags so their results are essentially meaningless to us.

 

[cr5]

Over the course if 10 000 rounds or more, the ammo savings on norinco over a premium brand would be enough to pay for a barrel. Norinco has it's place. If I'm doing a training course, I'm not running premium ammo.

I am very interested in this thread to see what the accuracy potential is with various types of ammo. If I am going out hunting yotes, I have to make sure my shots are accurate to ensure an ethical kill. So better quality ammo may be a better choice. But more money doesn't mean better. It'll be cool to see what this test comes up with.

But the tavor was meant to be a battle rifle. Not a bench rest baby. So for me, affordable ammo that keeps me shooting and having fun is the right kind if ammo.

True, but there are a lot of options between Norinco and premium ammo. I run American Eagle and S&B for bulk plinking and play around with different brands testing accuracy as well as building handloads for when I really want a rifle to perform.
Hopefully Mikes testing will help some of you find some accuracy. Problem is that what works in his rifle may not work in anyone else's.
I've owned 2 HK SL8-4's and each of them liked completely different ammo. They both shot well but their preference was not for the same ammo. Every barrel is different.
Everyone should be doing the same thing Mike is doing with their own rifle.

 

[mikethebike]

So on this gorgeous BC rainy wet weather day at the range...
Here is the rifle and the setup:

I took my best shots possible being super careful with trigger and breathing. And I cleaned the barrel, bolt carrier group piston after shooting each type.

The review is in and the winner is: Hornady VMAX 55 grain ammo avg 1.5 inch group at 100 yards! Thats pretty damn amazing since this was the last ammo I fired of the day and I was pretty tired and my trigger finger was sore from about 7 hours of shooting.

Hornady VMAX 55 grain ammo
I was so amazed by the performance of this round that I did the test twice on it, thats why we have 4 groups at 50 yards and 4 groups at 100 yards.
50 yards: 0.5 inch, 1 inch, 1.25 inch, 1 inch

100 yards: 1.75 inch, 1.3 inch, 1.5 inch, 1.75 inch

Winchester 55 grain white box
50 yards: 1.25, 1.5

100 yards: 4.5 inches, 2.5 inches

AE 55 grain black box:
50 yards: 2 inches, 1.75 inches

100 yards: 3 inches, 2.5 inches

Hornady 75 grain match
50 yards:1.5 inches, 1.5 inches, I disregarded one round (where i drew a black x) because I miss shot that one, some guy with a 30-06 surprised me next to me while I was squeezing the trigger.

100 yards: 3inches, 2.25 inches

Winchester PDX1 defender 60 grain
50 yards: 2.5 inches, 2.25 inches

100 yards: 4.25 inches, 3 inches

Hornady Zmax 55 grain:
50 yards: 1.3 inches, 1inch

100 yards: 1.75 inches, 2.5 inches

Winchester superx 64 grain:
50 yards: 0.75 inch, 0.5 inch

100 yards: 5 inches, 2.5 inches

Federal sierra match king BTHP 77 grain
50 yards:1.5 inch, 0.5 inch

100 yards: 3.5 inch, 3.5 inch

Fusion 62 grain
50 yards: 1inch, 1.5 inch

100 yards: 3 inches, 3.5 inches

 

[drifter dave]

Must have taken all day to do all of those target swaps. Thanks for posting.

 

[tar21]

nice post from my humble experience i get the same results depending on ammo (i don't reload no space ) i get from 2-4 inch groups at a 100 meters if I'm doing my part

 

[beltfed]

Just looking at your 100m groups, assuming you did not change point of aim through the targets you used, what is your point of aim?
Seems to mirror my testing: erratic point of impact with various types of ammo, and not at all consistent even with the same type of ammo.
Try 10 round groups with the best ammo you think it likes - then take it out further to 200 & 300m.
4-6 moa is a good description of this things capabilities.

 

[mikethebike]

Point of aim for 1st group is center of target, point of aim for 2nd group is mostly lower left bullseye.
Elcan is zeroed at 50 yards with 55 grain AE

The zombies and vmax give me the best results.

 

[ntm]

Interesting, I may have to revisit some 55 grain loads !
I've got a 69 grain load that'll go 2.1 to 2.3 inches for ten round groups.

 

[mikethebike]

Interesting, I may have to revisit some 55 grain loads !
I've got a 69 grain load that'll go 2.1 to 2.3 inches for ten round groups.

Im going to do a part 2 with ten round groups of the best ones, see how they hold up statistically, i just didn't have enough to do ten rounds. I cant go to 200 since my max scope is a 4x and i cant reliably hold the same poa at that rage with that magnification.
But the vmax seems to be holding up statistically under 2 moa at 100 yards and thats pretty surprising for a Tavor, at least for me, that's at least equivalent to an AR.

 

[waepek]

Great Job Mike!! Appreciate you posting the results. Somewhat validates some of my concerns. In my case the heavier projectiles did worst than the lighter projectiles. Picked up some 50 gr Vmax and 55gr Vmax to play with.

 

[ntm]

But the vmax seems to be holding up statistically under 2 moa at 100 yards and thats pretty surprising for a Tavor, at least for me, that's at least equivalent to an AR.

That'd be a pretty poor ar.
My 16" noveske lightweight would hold sub moa for ten round groups.
Best ten rounder I've seen out of the tavor is 1.9". And I've been unable to repeat it.

 

[cr5]

Im going to do a part 2 with ten round groups of the best ones, see how they hold up statistically, i just didn't have enough to do ten rounds. I cant go to 200 since my max scope is a 4x and i cant reliably hold the same poa at that rage with that magnification.
But the vmax seems to be holding up statistically under 2 moa at 100 yards and thats pretty surprising for a Tavor, at least for me, that's at least equivalent to an AR.

That's pretty good but only equivalent to a cheaper AR, spend the same on an AR as what a Tavor costs and it will be shooting moa or less. The AR I just sold was only around $2000 to build and it was very close to moa with a couple different factory loads (55gr V-max was one of the good ones). I'm sure it would have done sub moa if I had time to develop a load for it or try some more factory loads.
I think you would see an improvement in your 100yd groups if you had more magnification. I took my Specter DR off my HK and put on a 4-12 for testing and load development and saw an immediate improvement in the groups. The Specter will be going back on when I finish load development.

Good shooting, nice to see some decent groups from a Tavor.

 

[Alpestrine]

When using Norinco ammo "Do not fire the Tavor left handed". The manual says not to do this, and this is why. Norinco loads, at times, will shoot out a foot long flame from the breech. Trust me.We have it on video. I only noticed it once. The video showed way more than once. Think what would happen if it was on the left shoulder. Don't worry about catching a brass in the face. Norinco is cheap ammo but you get what you pay for. I think some rounds were a little to hot. From what I have heard the cheap 800 round cans were reloads. The primers are not crimped so this may be true. Maybe just a rumor.The best ammo I found so far is Hornady VMAX 55 grain ammo just as you did. Accurate and it destroys whatever it hits. But its expensive. I was hitting pumpkins at 300 and 400 yards this fall with all types of ammo. The pumpkins were about 10-14 inch diameter. But Hornady was the most accurate at all distances. First shot everytime it hit what I was shooting at. The Tavor was never meant to be a deadly accurate rifle. I would say 2-3 MOA. But if we are lucky this year we should be able to start tuning these up starting with the trigger group. For me I just like having a non restricted, high quality bullpup, that is kinda a CQB rifle. Put a lar mag in it and head out in the bush. Take cheap ammo. Let it rip. Then switch to the good stuff if you want to hunt or go long range with it. But for me, it was hornady

 

[ntm]

I think you would see an improvement in your 100yd groups if you had more magnification. I took my Specter DR off my HK and put on a 4-12 for testing and load development and saw an immediate improvement in the groups. The Specter will be going back on when I finish .

I was curious about it myself, and ran two sets of five, five round groups with the tavor.
I saw no difference between a 6-24 sightron and an eotech with 3x magnifier.

 

[mikethebike]

I think a better trigger would help bring those groups in a little bit, my finger is still swollen.
But i have to say i'm happy with my tavor after today. But i have to stock up on vmax.

 

[tar21]

i got my hands on some hornady superformance 5.56 75 grain bthp and i thought that it would be a great factory load boy was i wrong 4-5 inch groups with acog. Hornady 55 grain vmax and 53 grain superformance tightened up the groupings in half.

 

[Redbearded1]

Good work sir. Interesting results. Goes against the rumor that tavors like heavier bullets. I think I better do my own test to see what mine while likes best.

 

[cr5]

I was curious about it myself, and ran two sets of five, five round groups with the tavor.
I saw no difference between a 6-24 sightron and an eotech with 3x magnifier.

At what distance? I can't see how it would be possible to shoot through a red dot with a 1moa dot and through a magnifier anywhere close to as well as you could through a quality scope with a fine reticle.
I love my Specter DR, ACOG, and EoTech but they aren't for precision work at 100yds or more.

 

[mikethebike]

The thing with the elcan that I find really great is that at 1x it operates just as good as an eotech (I have a few eotechs and 1 aimpoint), it's fast to acquire targets and you dont have to hunt the red dot with the setup on the tavor. Then flipping the lever and you're right there ready to acquire targets at 100 yards. Not many optics can offer that, switch to side external magnifiers like the g33 or g22 are fine, but adding glass on top of glass makes it a little blurry, while the elcan is enclosed.

As far as an AR shooting sub moa, well maybe on paper, and maybe on paper the Tavor could do 1moa, but this is a real life exercise with real ammo and real groups counting all shots with an ordinary poor to mediocre shooter and 4x glass, not chosen best groups out of 20 groups with a 12x mag and a marksman.

I see lots of threads oh I can shoot .5 inch groups at 100 yards blah blah, yet whenever I go to PoCo and I glance at the 100 yard targets shot by ARs, they all have groups of 3 to 4 inches!!! I'm not saying everyone is lying, I'm saying I've yet to see it when i'm at the range. My groups with vmax were better than my neighbors groups with an SL8 and the next neighbor with a Daniel Defense shooting the vmax I gave them!

Yes people will say 1.5 inch groups with a .223 at 100 yards is not something to brag about, well I think it is, it's the best I've ever shot my Tavor consistently at. Those were 4 groups of more than 3 shots averaging at 1.5 inches. That's not 4 out of 20 groups discounting the flyers, that's 4 out of 4 groups counting all shots at the end of a 7 hour shooting day in the rain and cold with a swollen trigger finger.

 

[One Lung Wonder]

Well Mike - don't let it get to you. That is standard on this forum and others. Some of these chuckleheads need to go tell the stupid kids on the precision rifle forum that they can throw their bull barrelled match rifles in the garbage, because the snipers here can get better accuracy with cheap AR carbines, bargain basement ammo and red dot sights! I suspect that if they tried it, we would find them later hanging by their underwear from the rafters for it...and rightfully so! Such foolishness deserves a wedgie of biblical proportions as a punishment!

The only way to do it is like you did - get out there, set up the targets and do the homework. I am going out tomorrow with the 77gr Nosler wide-body BTHP's mixed with some Varget for flavour - and will post the results. These rifles WILL shoot, and your results are most encouraging.