Tavor and P-mag interference *video*
- Thread starter TV-PressPass
- Start date
blaxsun
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
OKAY SO!
I got my Tavor in, brand new. First thing I did was test this.
Every magazine works unloaded. Every magazine works loaded fully.
The ONLY magazine that did not raise the BHOD was the Lancer magazines with one round in. Every other magazine caused it to raise slightly when only one round was in the magazine.
Im sure Blaxsun can confirm this.
I had Pmags, L3 lancers, the D&W mag it came with, LAR mags orginal, and with the magpul followers.
I say again. Only magazine that didnt cause a little raise was the lancer L3.
I got my Tavor in, brand new. First thing I did was test this.
Every magazine works unloaded. Every magazine works loaded fully.
The ONLY magazine that did not raise the BHOD was the Lancer magazines with one round in. Every other magazine caused it to raise slightly when only one round was in the magazine.
Im sure Blaxsun can confirm this.
I had Pmags, L3 lancers, the D&W mag it came with, LAR mags orginal, and with the magpul followers.
I say again. Only magazine that didnt cause a little raise was the lancer L3.
I would have to agree. Seems to be a non issue as it only happens until it is the very last round in the mag. The lift is also very minor.
This needs more investigation from other users with their mags.
So your PMAGS rear U profile did not affect the BHOD tab like mine correct?
blaxsun
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Myth Busted! But a new villain lurketh...
Further to shotzee's post, here is the definitive Tavor magazine assessment... The following are the approximate height increase (+) of the bolt hold open when a magazine is inserted, from the default position. The results were... quite interesting! Read on for details...
Note: On my Tavor, the BHO is by default about 1mm below the top of the BHO enclosure. My Tavor is one of the very first batch and is running the modified IWI civilian bolt.
Before we go any further analysis, I want to unequivocally state that regardless of magazine/rounds remaining, at no time did the BHO ever rise enough to come into contact with the bolt. Let me also preface this observation by stating that I have zero wear on the bottom of my bolt and none on my bolt hold open.
On to the myths!
...
Myth 1: PMAGs can damage the BHO/bolt on your Tavor
False. Even if the default position of your BHO is raised 1-2mm above the level of the enclosure, there is still between 0.5-1mm of clearance. With a PMAG. This includes all Magpul factory PMAGs as well as 2 types of customized PMAGs (all third gen).
Myth 2: Magpul followers on LAR-15's can damage the BHO/bolt on your Tavor
False. I tested two different LAR-15 magazines (different generations); one with the standard factory grey follower and another with a Magpul green follower. They both increased the BHO by 3mm (!) when down to the last round.
Myth 3: Some magazines can damage the BHO/bolt on your Tavor
Plausible. If your BHO is raised 1-2mm about the level of the enclosure (slightly out-of-spec), using a LAR-15 (regardless of follower) 10-round magazine or a Surefire 60-round magazine could potentially lead to wear on your BHO and bolt.
...
That being said, I don't have any reason to disbelieve TV. He clearly had some issues and the premature wear on his bolt could certainly have been caused by the BHO. But based on my own (albeit limited and certainly unscientific) testing, I'm wondering if the culprit isn't the LAR-15 combined with something else out-of-spec?
So it looks like PMAGs are safe and good-to-go. But if you want to err on the side of caution, either the Lancer L5 or Lancer AWF polymer magazines will work flawlessly. As for the LAR-15... well, I've used LAR-15's quite a bit in my Tavor - so it was initially a bit disconcerting (to say the least). I honestly never really thought to test them and did it merely as an afterthought.
On the LAR-15, on my Tavor I had at least 1mm of clearance between the top of the BHO and the bolt lugs. Even with the Surefire there was still 0.25-0.5mm of clearance. From where I sit the only time this could potentially be a problem is if the default position of your BHO rests slightly above the enclosure.
I'd be very interested to hear of any other Tavor owner's observations.
Further to shotzee's post, here is the definitive Tavor magazine assessment... The following are the approximate height increase (+) of the bolt hold open when a magazine is inserted, from the default position. The results were... quite interesting! Read on for details...
Note: On my Tavor, the BHO is by default about 1mm below the top of the BHO enclosure. My Tavor is one of the very first batch and is running the modified IWI civilian bolt.
Before we go any further analysis, I want to unequivocally state that regardless of magazine/rounds remaining, at no time did the BHO ever rise enough to come into contact with the bolt. Let me also preface this observation by stating that I have zero wear on the bottom of my bolt and none on my bolt hold open.
On to the myths!
...
Myth 1: PMAGs can damage the BHO/bolt on your Tavor
False. Even if the default position of your BHO is raised 1-2mm above the level of the enclosure, there is still between 0.5-1mm of clearance. With a PMAG. This includes all Magpul factory PMAGs as well as 2 types of customized PMAGs (all third gen).
Myth 2: Magpul followers on LAR-15's can damage the BHO/bolt on your Tavor
False. I tested two different LAR-15 magazines (different generations); one with the standard factory grey follower and another with a Magpul green follower. They both increased the BHO by 3mm (!) when down to the last round.
Myth 3: Some magazines can damage the BHO/bolt on your Tavor
Plausible. If your BHO is raised 1-2mm about the level of the enclosure (slightly out-of-spec), using a LAR-15 (regardless of follower) 10-round magazine or a Surefire 60-round magazine could potentially lead to wear on your BHO and bolt.
...
That being said, I don't have any reason to disbelieve TV. He clearly had some issues and the premature wear on his bolt could certainly have been caused by the BHO. But based on my own (albeit limited and certainly unscientific) testing, I'm wondering if the culprit isn't the LAR-15 combined with something else out-of-spec?
So it looks like PMAGs are safe and good-to-go. But if you want to err on the side of caution, either the Lancer L5 or Lancer AWF polymer magazines will work flawlessly. As for the LAR-15... well, I've used LAR-15's quite a bit in my Tavor - so it was initially a bit disconcerting (to say the least). I honestly never really thought to test them and did it merely as an afterthought.
On the LAR-15, on my Tavor I had at least 1mm of clearance between the top of the BHO and the bolt lugs. Even with the Surefire there was still 0.25-0.5mm of clearance. From where I sit the only time this could potentially be a problem is if the default position of your BHO rests slightly above the enclosure.
I'd be very interested to hear of any other Tavor owner's observations.
blaxsun
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
See the update. All magazines will run fine on the Tavor, no exceptions.
Ill be using my TAR-21 for 3gun matches. So LAR-15 mags are a must for me. Ill keep a close eye on it.
In fact. Looking at the enhanced followes on my LARS I can see the edge where it hits the HOD is raised. Vs the entire portion on the PMAG follower is flat. Im sure that if anybody wanted to. They could just make the follower flat with a dremel.
Anybody wanna test that?
In fact. Looking at the enhanced followes on my LARS I can see the edge where it hits the HOD is raised. Vs the entire portion on the PMAG follower is flat. Im sure that if anybody wanted to. They could just make the follower flat with a dremel.
Anybody wanna test that?
TV-PressPass
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Mountains, Alberta
####. This is me with LAR mags too. Time to sit down with the light again.
This is the bolt wear that first prompted me to look into these issues. I'd be pleased to find some other possible reasons:
TV-PressPass
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Mountains, Alberta
Then for the love of god: someone tell me why this happens
[youtube]uTxPcM7XW64[/youtube]
